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Patreon Criticisms


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He's on the 2K forums telling how he spent $30 on a Supercard event and has admitted on that forum spending a lot more before.  And this is the guy that wants your money on Patreon to pay back his deb

I fear that Phil's worry about certain fans feeling left out for not being able to afford to donate will leave them feeling disenfranchised can come true. I also think creating the artificial delay f

IMO this comes of as whining and is very off putting. He decided to move and if he was going to have issues with debt than he shouldn't have purchased a house plain and simple.. you live within your m

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I fear that Phil's worry about certain fans feeling left out for not being able to afford to donate will leave them feeling disenfranchised can come true.

I also think creating the artificial delay for there to be an "early access" can hurt his ad revenue, if he decided to keep ads on these Patreon exclusive videos. People generally go to Phil to see games on release.

Finally, I'm not really sure how much people will actually donate each month.

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I fear that Phil's worry about certain fans feeling left out for not being able to afford to donate will leave them feeling disenfranchised can come true.

I also think creating the artificial delay for there to be an "early access" can hurt his ad revenue, if he decided to keep ads on these Patreon exclusive videos. People generally go to Phil to see games on release.

Finally, I'm not really sure how much people will actually donate each month.

​I agree

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To keep a healthy and balanced view let's allow for healthy criticism of Phil's Patreon idea here. 

- If you are saying positive things about his Patreon you are probably off topic. 

​'twas a noble effort, but i don't think this thread will last long either, I'm afraid.

But I agree with Fred's post.

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I have a suggestion. Let's say, for example, that Phil's still working out ideas for Patreon and he wants to officially start the campaign at the beginning of February. For the rest of this month, what if he were to temporarily set up a donation pool through PayPal and see how it works out at the end of the month? If it gets a decent amount of people donating, he could choose to keep it available as an alternative option for those who want to only donate, but don't want to go through the process of becoming Patrons, making a one-time pledge, and then canceling their subscription.

I can understand that Phil doesn't like accepting donations, but I think the reason why people like to donate to content creators is that it's a way of giving back to them, in return for the tons of content they put out. I don't think the fans expect something in return--donating is just a sort of kind gesture.

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I'm worried that Phil might no able to give Patreon pledgers content that suffices for the money they give. Phil would need to make it worth their while and get people interested in donating.

​I agree, if he keeps doing the same old thing he always does (LPs and Vlogs) then it wouldn't be enough for some people to keep donating to his Patreon.

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Apparently expecting Phil to make extra content on top of his 2 streams and uploading everything is an entitled attitude.  Me?  I believe Patreon is a commitment where people give you money for you making content, anyone starting one has to be fully committed to work their ass off to give their patrons VFM.  One the one hand, early access to videos can be a noble intention but it could also be the least amount of work for the money option and if people get the idea it's a one way deal they'll disappear quicker than you can say Twitch mods.

 

Here's an idea, can someone visit otherr gamers who use patreon and report back what they give their donators for the money?  I'd do it myself but it's something I can't be arsed doing myself like.

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​I can't tell if you are being serious or not.

​If you can't tell I'm being serious, then chances are you aren't a long time fan of his to know that he has shown numerous instances of going back on his word on certain things.

To list just a few: Adopting direct capture even after "priding" himself on recording his screen with a camcorder, embracing mobile gaming even though he explicitly said that iPads add nothing to his life, and now accepting donations in the form of Patreon.

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I very much agree with Phil on this point:

[video with timestamp]

Fred, I'm going to be brutally honest (as always) here.  That video you keep spamming?  It's pretty damn irrelevant.

Phil clearly did not understand what Patreon was about back nine months ago.  All he understood was that Patreon is technically a "donation service" and assumed you had to have some sort of "premium" or "paywall" content for the people.  However, the "pay model" described in that video is only one of many ways you can use Patreon to either fund or supplement your projects, which I'm sure Phil knows by now.
He also seemed to think that going to Patreon would completely stop people from watching his content all at the same time, if not completely, because people would feel like they had to pay to watch him.  He did say he would never "charge people to view his content", but in that same answer, but he also  explained why he had a subscription service on Twitch.  Simply put, you didn't need to subscribe to view his content, however, subscribing game you access to more content -- initially just entry into giveaways and emotes, but later, archived streams at maximum resolution and frame rate, which a few people really liked.

He never "changed his mind" about going with some other sort of paid thing for his viewers.  He'd never made up his mind to begin with.  Which is why he asked for peoples' opinions on going with some other sort of pay service.  The fact he had that Twitch Subscription service in the first place pretty much reinforces Phil's stance of "I don't want somethin' for nothin'.  You give me money, I give you goodies without penalizing everyone else."  In his mind, it's not a "donation" or "charity" if Phil can give something back.

And that leads us back to the other topic wherein we're left wondering just what Phil could come up with that would be becoming a Patreon Supporter for, but wouldn't make non-paying fans feel slighted.  Of course, the answer there is "nothing".  Some people are always going to complain because they can't get something for nothing.  And that seems to be the crux of Phil's dilemma.

Hopefully though, he and the community will figure out something.

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Fred, I'm going to be brutally honest (as always) here.  That video you keep spamming?  It's pretty damn irrelevant.

Phil clearly did not understand what Patreon was about back nine months ago.  All he understood was that Patreon is technically a "donation service" and assumed you had to have some sort of "premium" or "paywall" content for the people.  However, the "pay model" described in that video is only one of many ways you can use Patreon to either fund or supplement your projects, which I'm sure Phil knows by now.
He also seemed to think that going to Patreon would completely stop people from watching his content all at the same time, if not completely, because people would feel like they had to pay to watch him.  He did say he would never "charge people to view his content", but in that same answer, but he also  explained why he had a subscription service on Twitch.  Simply put, you didn't need to subscribe to view his content, however, subscribing game you access to more content -- initially just entry into giveaways and emotes, but later, archived streams at maximum resolution and frame rate, which a few people really liked.

He never "changed his mind" about going with some other sort of paid thing for his viewers.  He'd never made up his mind to begin with.  Which is why he asked for peoples' opinions on going with some other sort of pay service.  The fact he had that Twitch Subscription service in the first place pretty much reinforces Phil's stance of "I don't want somethin' for nothin'.  You give me money, I give you goodies without penalizing everyone else."  In his mind, it's not a "donation" or "charity" if Phil can give something back.

And that leads us back to the other topic wherein we're left wondering just what Phil could come up with that would be becoming a Patreon Supporter for, but wouldn't make non-paying fans feel slighted.  Of course, the answer there is "nothing".  Some people are always going to complain because they can't get something for nothing.  And that seems to be the crux of Phil's dilemma.

Hopefully though, he and the community will figure out something.

​Joseph, I'm going to take you to task (as always) here once again.

Posted it twice, that's really not spamming.

He knew that he needed to offer something, such as access to a video early. It's clear from the video... that's why he directly says early access to videos then goes on to describe his feeling on early access to video and how his fans would feel about early access to videos.

The early access that he spoke of was literally that everyone could see it eventually but donators could see it early by creating an artificial "early".

He did change his mind, he referred to donators getting early access a "slap in the face", now it's not a slap in the face and most likely one of the rewards. At no point did he talk about hypothetically making videos ONLY accessible if you donate and he never has.

 

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I noticed that DSP is going to Comicon where he is most likely going to buy the 3 day tickets and stay at a hotel. With PL and him going, the tickets will cost $400 cumulative and the hotels there run up to 200 bucks a night, that's 1000 dollars for the trip alone not counting the accessories and food they will buy. What's really the point of this Patreon if he can already willingly spend upwards of $1,000+? 

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He did change his mind

​There is nothing wrong with that.

I've always disagreed with Phil's refusal to accept donations. The fact that he's somewhat loosened up his stance is good news to me. He "changed his mind" about direct capture too and that worked out for the best. You can hop on these instances of him changing his opinion on things and call it hypocrisy or you can look at it as him evolving in his environment, changing his business model to accommodate different needs and survive. If he tries the "early access" thing and it's unsuccessful/unpopular he can just discontinue it and try something else. Feels like some people are taking this too personally. When I see people getting hung up on these so-called contradictions it comes off as nitpicky more than anything. I say let Phil try out his ideas and see what works best, maybe even give him some ideas of our own.

My thoughts are this:  when I hear people say that they don't want to get to miss out on content, yet still want to get something substantial for supporting his Patreon it really squeezes him into a corner. Early access would be a good compromise since it gives supporters something meaningful while at the same time still making it eventually available to everybody. Plus it wouldn't even have to apply to all his content. He could make the early access thing only apply to Hateful Truths, Ask the Kings and DSP Tries Its while his gameplay footage remains untouched. Or he can try it the other way around. Or maybe he can make it so it only applies to the upcoming new series he was talking about making. Either way I think the whole idea is an option that should still be kept on the table at least.   

I noticed that DSP is going to Comicon where he is most likely going to buy the 3 day tickets and stay at a hotel. With PL and him going, the tickets will cost $400 cumulative and the hotels there run up to 200 bucks a night, that's 1000 dollars for the trip alone not counting the accessories and food they will buy. What's really the point of this Patreon if he can already willingly spend upwards of $1,000+? 

​He said he's only going for one day so I doubt he's getting a hotel.

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Here's something I realised, [from their site] "When you become a patron you are agreeing to give an artist a tip of an amount YOU set everytime they release a piece of content.

 

How will you decide what is a patreon piece of content and what isn't? If you play an RPG you can't put all 100+ parts up as patreon nor can you have for example some parts early access and others not.

 

I really don;t think you have given this much thought other than "I need money"  You give the air that this is viable because it isn't a straight donation but if you're going to carry on as usual with no patreon only content you may as well just take straight paypal donations and be done with it as there is no difference from where I look at it.  Also spunking money on Supercard cards and buying stuff you don't need is probably going to have to finish, people aren't going to enter into a patreon contract with you if they think their money will be frittered away on frivolities instead of using a percentage of the income to improve your content. You can't complain of debts from the move and then be seen to be paying out fat stacks on something you don't really need or could do without for a few months in order to ease your financial burden.

Of course there will be the usual suspects who will donate due to them being big fans of your content but you should be making an effort to wow those who might not be thinking of donation a dollar, this isn't something you half ass and believe because you once has more views it will be a sure thing, you need to put effort in and you are going to need to do a lot of work just to get it off the ground otherwise you might as well not even bother

A good idea would be just to man up and be transparent in your plans regarding Patreon and sell the neutrals on it as nobody seems to have a clue what plans you have for this venture, You must have some right?  It's not like you're thinking of starting one up without giving it any thought.  So, what plans do you currently have? 

 

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