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Observations and suggestions in regards to DarkSydePhil's decreasing views

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Actually currently watching this playthrough, so far it's really good.

As far as suggestions go, I guess just keep having a more open mind in regards to what you play, which you definitely have improved on.

Someone mentioned editing earlier too, and that's a good suggestion. Premiere is good software if you want to give it a try. If not, Vegas is also good.

That's it, really. I like your commentary as of late so no complaints there. lol

I now use Premiere Pro for vid editing and have since February when I paid for the upgrade. It's WORLDS beyond what I used to use and only took a few weeks to really get the hang of.

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Longtime Viewer so I'll give some feedback. 

 

Haters: As a youtube personality you will always have haters so it's pointless to focus too much on them. Any famous let's player will draw hate.

Jokes: I honestly think phil used to make more jokes during his videos. In your newer let's plays you focus too much on what's happening on screen and not enough joke making. Like go watch heavy rain, you were spouting jokes left and right and it was hilarious. 

Video length: I agree with above posts. In 2015 its hard to watch a whole playthrough. You need to figure something out. Either edit your whole playthrough into one montage or only focus on the beggining of a game. Your intro videos always get tons of views. You could shift your videos into a new series called "first look" or something where you only play a game for like one or 2 streams and edit it into one video.

Stream longer: I know you said this might not be possible but just consider it.

Branch out: Don't just play new releases. Play steam games, play what;s hot, go to gamestop and find some weird or funny cheap games to play.

Bring back cooking with king: People loved that series you should consider bringing it back. Don't change it though, it has to be like the original videos. Evewn if you do something like bake cookies it will be funny as fuck if you don't know what you're doing. And don't have Leanna help you it needs to be like original series. 

focus less on side content: Originally i think your videos were more digestable and faster paced. Nowadays you focus on side content a lot and i think it slows down the pace of your video a lot. Like during transformers you were about to go to Level 2 and I was super excited then you paused and went back to mindlessly search for side content and it got boring and i turned stream off. Just something to think about. 

Just some thoughts. Thanks. 

Edited by NintendoFan
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This website feels bare bones, which has had an effect on the diminishing activity lately. This is supposed to be the community for DSP fans but it's virtually just a forum with portal integrations. Most of the time, a website that functions seperately from a youtube entity is supposed to have something that compels the viewer to visit than stay on the main platform. The stream is on Youtube and I don't care for stream chat all that much. Youtube gaming has a filter similar to the one you have on your home page for your content. The forums, regarding specific topics of interest, are barren with any sort of activity. The social media(Twitter and Instagram) integration is nice, but it's not for everyone. So when the main appeal of coming here, the social interaction with other users, is compromised, people won't really make the effort to hang around on the website. 

Secondly, I think this is the most important part seeing as how it's had a noticeable change on your direction.  If I were to acknowledge what made your videos different than others is that most playthroughs don't feel like yours anymore. When you beat a game in the past, YOU beat the game. Not us, the viewers. You. Think about the average user who watches your video and then hears, "The stream chat is telling me..." or "Someone from stream chat said..." and so on. We can even see this to be the case when you're constantly looking to the left at your laptop. I don't even need to see it through the face cam, to be quite honest. To be fair, you do say that the aim is to emulate the situation where we're both on the coach enjoying the experience together, but not when vital information and tips are being force fed. That makes the experience disingenuous. 

Yes, streaming is a vital part of your business. Don't get me wrong, continue to do it. But don't pander to one side by involving them considerably in your day to day playthroughs while the other side i.e the one that watched pre-streaming/post-streaming feels secluded. 

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So regarding your question about streaming:YES I think you should stream way less,maybe do 1 stream on launch day for bigger games(like F4) and no streams for other games.Streaming affects how you play games whether it's stream chat telling you exactly what to do,you checking out if the stream is working or you looking at the viewer count which can raise your spirits or down you.

So maybe try it until December and go from there.

edit: seems like many people in the comments have a similar opinion

Edited by salvador

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This website feels bare bones, which has had an effect on the diminishing activity lately. This is supposed to be the community for DSP fans but it's virtually just a forum with portal integrations. Most of the time, a website that functions seperately from a youtube entity is supposed to have something that compels the viewer to visit than stay on the main platform. The stream is on Youtube and I don't care for stream chat all that much. Youtube gaming has a filter similar to the one you have on your home page for your content. The forums, regarding specific topics of interest, are barren with any sort of activity. The social media(Twitter and Instagram) integration is nice, but it's not for everyone. So when the main appeal of coming here, the social interaction with other users, is compromised, people won't really make the effort to hang around on the website. 

Secondly, I think this is the most important part seeing as how it's had a noticeable change on your direction.  If I were to acknowledge what made your videos different than others is that most playthroughs don't feel like yours anymore. When you beat a game in the past, YOU beat the game. Not us, the viewers. You. Think about the average user who watches your video and then hears, "The stream chat is telling me..." or "Someone from stream chat said..." and so on. We can even see this to be the case when you're constantly looking to the left at your laptop. I don't even need to see it through the face cam, to be quite honest. To be fair, you do say that the aim is to emulate the situation where we're both on the coach enjoying the experience together, but not when vital information and tips are being force fed. That makes the experience disingenuous. 

Yes, streaming is a vital part of your business. Don't get me wrong, continue to do it. But don't pander to one side by involving them considerably in your day to day playthroughs while the other side i.e the one that watched pre-streaming/post-streaming feels secluded. 

I agree with your points regarding the website. Excluding the fact that I don't have as much experience with web-design as I have with the backend side of things, what are your suggestions? Literally, I want to hear what are the features you would like to see.

Edit: Question isn't only for Fatal, anyone can pitch in.

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First and foremost, don't get me wrong. I think several of your ideas have been fantastic, web design wise. The stream is readily available on the home page. The twitter integration is appropriately placed since you can see his feed without logging onto the website or opening a new tab.since Finding his library of games with one keyword is great to weed out miscellaneous videos. And I can see his current playthroughs at the bottom. The home page along with the other tabs are really well done. It's just that the forums lack a bit of identity. It's mostly due to the simple username + avatar setup in the sense that there is no theme. If I were to visit this page, I would have a hard time knowing it was a DSP forum. Aesthetically, it's pretty vanilla. It does the job of having a place to communicate about things we're familiar with but it doesn't have much personality. Dustloop, a fighting game website, had a similar transition towards IPS and from what I've seen, they unfortunately don't allow that much tinkering with their templates in terms of HTML/CSS. I could be wrong.  

Edit: Didn't want to make a different post but Phil's daily update for today sort of coincides with my previous sentiment. Reduce streaming to either add a better appreciation to it or take stream chat out of the equation. It's interesting that you brought up the MGS5 situation since there are several people who aren't a fan of that, actually. Instead of taking the time out to discover it on your own, it was a cheap fix because of stream chat. Imagine your Dark Souls situation and remember how elated and satisfied you were when you found out how to use souls. As a viewer, going from part 1 all the way to that specific section, I legitimately thought it was cool. Now imagine if you asked, "How do I use souls?" and that was answered in mere seconds. Again, it feels insincere. Regardless, I'm glad Phil is asking for feedback regarding that issue and I hope a middle ground will be found. 

Edited by FatalSeabass
Forgot something.

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Hi, I feel the need to discuss something here. I used to be a fan of yours back when he would play Street Fighter IV and a couple of his early playthroughs (such as Dead Space). And I've recently checked in again. I'd like to think I can weigh in on a few things concerning his lack of views. I'd like to give a little bit of background before I dig into the real point of my post so it makes more sense. I ended up not watching you so much for a few factors, and I would occasionally see a This Is How You Don't Play video pop up and check it out and it gave me a laugh, but I ultimately never thought too much about it.

And then somewhat recently I "connected" with you again. I wouldn't say I entirely connected with you though. See, I only actually took a look at you after you trashed on a guy named Trick2g. I was directed to this because somebody I know mentioned you talked about him getting banned from Twitch for one day after a fake SWATing incident. Honestly, I don't want to get into that all, but I just wanted to say that being a guy who could potentially take a look at your channel, and I see you insulting a dude I actually quite enjoy makes me not want to watch you all too much. It doesn't make me feel highly of you, especially since you were not very knowledgeable on what happened. And, again, I won't argue with what you were wrong about because it's not about that, but I didn't care for the fact that you just tore down the guy and insulted him a lot over it.

Because you see, I'm a fan of trick2g. I watch his streams semi-frequently. Like maybe once a week before I go to bed--sometimes more frequently. And if I'm enjoying this guy and I hear that some other guy is insulting him, I won't want to watch you. It's as simple as that. You could be right, you could make a lot of good points, but you went at him in an entirely uncalled for and aggressive manner that frankly puts me off. And from what I have heard, you haven't done this to just Trick2g. You've done it to a lot of other people. In fact, the main reason I stopped watching you play Street Fighter IV was because you would often be so negative that it just wasn't fun to watch. I would see you insult people on the other end and yell about how you had lag and your move didn't come out, among other things. And I said "I think I'm done" one day and moved on.

And I didn't say anything to you about it. Why would I? You're just a dude on Youtube. You're a business man, so you'll probably understand the term "silent walker." If not, I'll explain. A silent walker is someone who walks away from giving someone constant business without a word. You never find out why they left or anything, they just leave. This happens constantly in the business world and it seems as though it's happened here. People have stopped watching your stuff in bulk, and it's for reasons you can't figure out. However, there are vocal people (clearly) who express why they stopped watching your content, and I feel like you've ignored them because they say negative stuff about you en masse. Which, I understand. I get it. I wouldn't want to hear their constant criticism, but they made their reasons known.

So I just gave you a reason I left: You're too negative during gameplay. But after I heard about you after the Trick2g thing, I decided to check out your Black Ops II(?) Beta Stream. I shut it off because you were too negative. And then I checked out your Tony Hawk 5 stream because I wanted to see what the game is like. I shut it off because you were too negative. Now, you can argue with me until you're blue in the face about how you aren't negative and such and such, but the fact of the matter is that I think you're too negative and I'm not watching your content because of it. And it's up to you to do something with that information. You can discard it--maybe I'm crazy, maybe you think I'm just one dude, etc. Or you can think I'm right and change accordingly. I can't change you by telling you why I don't watch. Nor do I really want to. I'm just posting here because I felt like I needed to get that off my chest.

But I can tell you that there are streamers and LP'ers out there that I enjoy very much and that they aren't nearly as negative as you. And your prestream today where you were trashing on other streamers and LP'ers is actually what made me want to post here. I'm not sure why you continue to do this. Who would want to hear you be negative about people they might like? Have you considered that maybe trashing on people for a while may be a part of why people are leaving? You literally said that you're better than other streamers because they just see the viewer as dollar signs and that they are impersonal.

Let me tell you something: I have never, ever felt like a dollar sign to any of the people I follow, and that includes Trick2g. What Trick2g does is actually remarkable. He dedicates himself to helping his subscribers improve at League of Legends as well as providing humorous commentary. He has helped me improve in that game quite a bit just from watching him. The people who donate to him, he actually commentates on their matches. He gives a personal shout out to anyone who donates and thanks them profusely, because he cares that much about it. And he gets in dialogue with his viewers too. He doesn't disrupt his stream for that, and he doesn't constantly talk about subscriptions and such. In fact, he talks about subscriptions a lot less than you do about watching your content and donating to Patreon.

Of course, there's some other streamers too who don't do one game specifically that I enjoy, but they're outstanding and they talk to their fanbase constantly. During streams, they're always joking around and talking with people. I never saw a lot of that from you, and that makes me feel like you're far more impersonal to your viewer base. I feel like you consider yourself to be personal with your viewers because you seem to vent a lot to them, but it's not all about that. It's about having fun with people, and I feel like you're disconnected from that now. But here you are, trying to dismiss them on your channel and try to say that anyone who watches them are saps. Do you really think I want to watch a guy who calls me a sap? Do you think I want him to give me the time of day? Hell, didn't you trash on people who like watching League of Legends? Because I watch League of Legends--tell me why I should watch you if you're going to trash on me for that.

The fact is, you don't watch these people. You just are incredibly negative towards them, and it sounds like you're bitter towards them and the people who watch them. I don't want to watch you for it. It's that simple, and I'd rather watch people who are positive and are constantly interacting with their viewers in meaningful ways. And with Youtube Gaming out now, people can see many more streamers now too, so if they don't like what you're doing then they can jump to next streamer.

However, I have to say another reason I stopped following you was because you make too many videos and that was way too much of an investment for me. I'd rather watch a guy with a half hour video every day than one with five hours every day. I think you've oversaturated that and it seems practically impossible for people to keep up with hours of a game every day when they have other interests besides watching Youtube. It's just too much and I think a lot of people have checked out from watching so much of that.

Anyway, do with what I've said what you will. I was going to post something here a month ago but a topic got closed when I tried, so I'm not sure how this post will last. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

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A few quick responses:

-I'm actually far LESS negative these days that I used to be. As in, I actually enjoy games a lot more and am less apt to blame a game/game dev like I used to. I can actually name a few cases in MGSV, and just last week in Transformers when there were some harsh difficulty spikes, but instead of going NUTS like I used to? After some initial rage I regrouped, learned and progressed. I'm doing that a lot more as a gamer now. Sadly the stigma of my doing it constantly years ago apparently doesn't clear up, because most people don't watch the new stuff but instead just talk about those old situations (not saying they don't happen at all today, but it's certainly way better now).

-I certainly don't remember anything about a Black Ops II beta, but for Tony Hawk, that game was AWFUL and it's agreed across the board how bad of a game it is. You may have just watched the one thing recently that WAS really bad and I raged on, by sheer coincidence. 

-The Trick2g situation is solely based off of him staging a SWATing and is spoken from the perspective of someone who HAS been SWATed and had his life put into danger. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of the stuff he does on a daily basis (and indeed, I never referenced nor criticized that at all). But the fact that 1. he did it and treated it as a joke, 2. he then created an air of hype/drama around it to PROFIT OFF OF IT is incredibly disgusting. As I said in my original statement: how someone who has a legit fanbase for good reasons and then could choose to do something like that SOLELY for more attention is incredibly insulting and disgusting. There are people being SWATed daily and it's a SERIOUS CRIME, not to be taken lightly. There is no defense from a logical, mature standpoint that can justify a fake SWATing at this time in 2015. If it weren't an increasingly more dangerous epidemic in several years? That would be a different story. But certainly not now - and the way that Twitch handled the situation was so unprofessional, it outright proved they're only in it for the money as well (which is sickening). AND the second that Trick2g decided to "Fake SWAT" for viewers, those viewers became nothing but dollar signs, and so did EVERYONE whose ever been SWATed for real. Seriously disgusting.

The other things you're mentioning when it comes to Twitch streamers don't apply to me. If I were to constantly be interacting, the on-demand videos that I make for YouTube (which are the majority of my income and viewerbase) would be ruined. YouTube viewers have FREQUENTLY expressed disappointment the few times that I even reference the stream chat, because they're not there live to share in that experience. I didn't get popular because of the "boom of live streaming" like the people you're referencing here, I got popular doing offline playthroughs and that's what the majority of the viewing audience are coming for. My most popular series as of late was Until Dawn, where the live stream was disabled and I played the ENTIRE thing cold, offline, with on stream chat or interaction. Completely flipping that formula would NOT work for me, despite it working for many others on Twitch.

 

But yeah, overall I can see your points. I'm doing what I can to change, improve, and constantly become better based on feedback. But when I DO actively do that (ask any active viewers from the past 2 years about how I've improved) and instead of positive change, I see months during a busy gaming season with the worst views I've EVER gotten? I tend to react and talk about this stuff publicly.

Seems the only way that I can get attention would be to copy the formulas of others, which I certainly don't want to do. Either becoming an "edited video/comedy YouTuber" or an "interactive Twitch streamer" would greatly compromise what I've strived to do on YouTube since day 1.

So what exactly is the right choice?

 

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I posted this on a video but would hate for it to get lost in the shuffle...

-------------

I have no idea why I'm bothering as most likely my comments will be dismissed, but as a amused/annoyed bystander, I had to chime in.  

For reference, I also have a LP style channel and have been trying to make it a career for ~4 years. No, I'm not hoping for clicks. I say this because I want you to understand where I'm coming from.

"When they get [a donation] they interrupt the stream."

I agree that this is highly annoying and find it difficult to find good streamers who don't. Good on you for not doing it.

My feedback:

1) Focus on re-building. The channel, the viewer base, your reputation, etc. You have a bad rep, regardless of why you think that is.  Work from a position of knowing and accepting this and moving forward. Stop blaming "haters," stop blaming "kids," and for God's sakes stop saying things like "I'm being attacked by sociopaths!" Stop complaining about views repeatedly. Stop bitching about things that you haven't actually researched (ie; the Ice Bucket Challenge.) Stop blaming the game/bugs/devs for mistakes that you make.

A great example of improvement on your part was in Transformers vs the 3 boss Insecticons. You kept dying but you kept a more positive attitude. You didn't blame the game, devs, etc.  More of this! I absolutely understand getting pissed and blaming the game as I've had problems with it too but have worked on it myself due to viewer complaints.

2) Change your attitude re: your viewers. WAY too often you talk about how people aren't watching your videos, how ppl have asked for certain games but then don't watch, how people USED to spread the word but don't anymore *cough hint cough*, etc. 

You're mindset needs to be "What can I do today for my current viewers? What can I do to make them happy? How can I win back people I've pissed off over the years? How can I clean up my reputation?"  The kicker here is that you have to start taking responsibility and ownership of your faults and work hard everyday to overcome them.

The "haters" are going to nitpick everything you do, keep making fail montages, etc. So what? There's nothing you can do about it. Focus your time and energy on what you CAN work on.

3) Stop complaining about views. This isn't about being transparent or not making a personal connection with your viewers. There is a gap between sharing the personal side of your life/channel and beating a dead horse.

It has absolutely nothing to do with ignoring what's important to your business. The views are YOUR problem, NOT your viewer's. Just because you're facing some hardships with your business doesn't mean you talk about it constantly to your viewers/customers.

Imagine if you had a favorite restaurant you visited daily for lunch. Every day, the manager would come by and complain about how business is slow, they are barely able to stay afloat, they've had issues with vandals, etc. Would you really want to hear this every few days? Sure, if you knew they were having issues you'd want to do what you could to help, but eventually you're going to get tired of hearing the manager complain and stop going.

It's incredibly frustrating to work hours and hours on SEO, audio editing, finding optimal encoding settings, etc., just to have those videos get ~30 views.  But you know what? I mostly keep that to myself. I want my viewers to relax and have fun after a day of work/school/whatever by watching my content. That doesn't mean I don't talk about these things at all, but I keep it to a minimum.

I have to put forward that you saying things like "I think viewers take me for granted" burns my ass. The viewers are what make it possible for you to do what you do!! The fact of the matter is is that there are 100's (if not more) of unedited Let's Play YouTube channels who don't do screamy-face cam that they can turn to instead; YOU rely on them, not the other way around.  

The stone cold truth is that people like us who do unedited gameplay are a dime a dozen. You need to re-build your community and love that community. Without our viewers and without our communities, we aren't shit.

Anyway I had a load more to say but I'll stop now. 

 

-------------------

TL;DR: Stop complaining about views, stop blaming the game/dev/etc (you've definitely improved on this front,) stop blaming "haters." Stop crapping on other YouTubers/Twitchs streamers. Focus on your viewers, fixing your image and re-building your channel. Build, nurture, and respect your community.

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I posted this on a video but would hate for it to get lost in the shuffle...

-------------

I have no idea why I'm bothering as most likely my comments will be dismissed, but as a amused/annoyed bystander, I had to chime in.  

For reference, I also have a LP style channel and have been trying to make it a career for ~4 years. No, I'm not hoping for clicks. I say this because I want you to understand where I'm coming from.

"When they get [a donation] they interrupt the stream."

I agree that this is highly annoying and find it difficult to find good streamers who don't. Good on you for not doing it.

My feedback:

1) Focus on re-building. The channel, the viewer base, your reputation, etc. You have a bad rep, regardless of why you think that is.  Work from a position of knowing and accepting this and moving forward. Stop blaming "haters," stop blaming "kids," and for God's sakes stop saying things like "I'm being attacked by sociopaths!" Stop complaining about views repeatedly. Stop bitching about things that you haven't actually researched (ie; the Ice Bucket Challenge.) Stop blaming the game/bugs/devs for mistakes that you make.

A great example of improvement on your part was in Transformers vs the 3 boss Insecticons. You kept dying but you kept a more positive attitude. You didn't blame the game, devs, etc.  More of this! I absolutely understand getting pissed and blaming the game as I've had problems with it too but have worked on it myself due to viewer complaints.

2) Change your attitude re: your viewers. WAY too often you talk about how people aren't watching your videos, how ppl have asked for certain games but then don't watch, how people USED to spread the word but don't anymore *cough hint cough*, etc. 

You're mindset needs to be "What can I do today for my current viewers? What can I do to make them happy? How can I win back people I've pissed off over the years? How can I clean up my reputation?"  The kicker here is that you have to start taking responsibility and ownership of your faults and work hard everyday to overcome them.

The "haters" are going to nitpick everything you do, keep making fail montages, etc. So what? There's nothing you can do about it. Focus your time and energy on what you CAN work on.

3) Stop complaining about views. This isn't about being transparent or not making a personal connection with your viewers. There is a gap between sharing the personal side of your life/channel and beating a dead horse.

It has absolutely nothing to do with ignoring what's important to your business. The views are YOUR problem, NOT your viewer's. Just because you're facing some hardships with your business doesn't mean you talk about it constantly to your viewers/customers.

Imagine if you had a favorite restaurant you visited daily for lunch. Every day, the manager would come by and complain about how business is slow, they are barely able to stay afloat, they've had issues with vandals, etc. Would you really want to hear this every few days? Sure, if you knew they were having issues you'd want to do what you could to help, but eventually you're going to get tired of hearing the manager complain and stop going.

It's incredibly frustrating to work hours and hours on SEO, audio editing, finding optimal encoding settings, etc., just to have those videos get ~30 views.  But you know what? I mostly keep that to myself. I want my viewers to relax and have fun after a day of work/school/whatever by watching my content. That doesn't mean I don't talk about these things at all, but I keep it to a minimum.

I have to put forward that you saying things like "I think viewers take me for granted" burns my ass. The viewers are what make it possible for you to do what you do!! The fact of the matter is is that there are 100's (if not more) of unedited Let's Play YouTube channels who don't do screamy-face cam that they can turn to instead; YOU rely on them, not the other way around.  

The stone cold truth is that people like us who do unedited gameplay are a dime a dozen. You need to re-build your community and love that community. Without our viewers and without our communities, we aren't shit.

Anyway I had a load more to say but I'll stop now. 

 

-------------------

TL;DR: Stop complaining about views, stop blaming the game/dev/etc (you've definitely improved on this front,) stop blaming "haters." Stop crapping on other YouTubers/Twitchs streamers. Focus on your viewers, fixing your image and re-building your channel. Build, nurture, and respect your community.

FYI somehow this comment got flagged a spam (probably because it was so long) but I did read it. Do appreciate your posting it here as well.

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FYI somehow this comment got flagged a spam (probably because it was so long) but I did read it. Do appreciate your posting it here as well.

I think some people may have flagged it due to not being okay with negative opinions about you, which kinda plays into another thing I recommend. I feel like your community, particularly in the forums can be hard to get into, firstly because some of your more devoted fans can get quite aggressive when it comes to defending you. For myself, who is a semi-casual viewer, but has quite a few criticisms, I am afraid of posting because I feel like certain people, not naming names, will jump all over me just for having negative opinions, even if the topic at hand has nothing to do with it. I haven't posted too much, and when I have, I have tended to post in these sorts of topics, because in truth, TIHYDP introduced me to you, and I think I get looked down on by some people for it. I would hope you would at least try to make sure people like this can't get away with it as much as they do currently.

On the other side, and I know it would be difficult, but trying to be a little less harsh on people as well, which sounds like a contradiction, but apart from the people I brought up, sometimes people get harsh punishments for things that personally I don't feel are deserving. It's another thing that makes it hard for me to join the community, because I'm scared that what I say will end up in me getting in trouble. Maybe send warnings first? I don't know, I've never run a forum, and knowing that you also have a lot of hate directed at you, it must be hard to police. But for me, that is the main thing I would like to see. Other than that, VertigoTherapy has pretty much covered anything else I would ever want to say :)

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I think some people may have flagged it due to not being okay with negative opinions about you, which kinda plays into another thing I recommend. I feel like your community, particularly in the forums can be hard to get into, firstly because some of your more devoted fans can get quite aggressive when it comes to defending you. For myself, who is a semi-casual viewer, but has quite a few criticisms, I am afraid of posting because I feel like certain people, not naming names, will jump all over me just for having negative opinions, 

Sorry I couldn't disagree more. Fans of DSP are banned all the time and are punished even though they are insulted on the forums by those that don't like it, you are not looking at it from both sides. And before someone accuses me of trying to derail, I am just clearly addressing the point you made.

Edited by Davey_J_Jr
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Sorry I couldn't disagree more. Fans of DSP are banned all the time and are punished even though they are insulted on the forums by those that don't like it, you are not looking at it from both sides.

This is exactly what I mean though! I say one thing, and you instantly jump on me for it. That's why I feel afraid of participating in the community, because I feel like if I don't have the "right" opinion, then I'm instantly demonized.

I am definitely trying to look at this from both sides, but from what I have seen, what you say is false. I will admit, I have not been around as long as you have, but that is the experience I have had and that is what I am recommending to Phil. I just want to be able to not worry about what I say, and get along with people.

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This is exactly what I mean though! I say one thing, and you instantly jump on me for it. That's why I feel afraid of participating in the community, because I feel like if I don't have the "right" opinion, then I'm instantly demonized.

I am definitely trying to look at this from both sides, but from what I have seen, what you say is false. I will admit, I have not been around as long as you have, but that is the experience I have had and that is what I am recommending to Phil. I just want to be able to not worry about what I say, and get along with people.

Sorry but I don't agree with you, that is not jumping on you. If you make a post on a forum people should be allowed to discuss it in an adult way. If you don't like my posts, there is an ignore function, but really I don't like this attitude that Phil's fans are always wrong and we are somehow victimizing others.

We can get along but people are allowed to disagree.

Edited by Davey_J_Jr
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Sorry but I don't agree with you, that is not jumping on you. If you make a post on a forum people should be allowed to discuss it in an adult way. If you don't like my posts, there is an ignore function, but really I don't like this attitude that Phil's fans are always wrong and we are somehow victimizing others.

We can get along but people are allowed to disagree.

I'm not saying that at all though, you're putting words into my mouth. I've always tried to be civil, polite and fair when I've posted, because that's how I expect things to happen, and I'm happy to get along with people who disagree. Don't think that I don't.

And I'm not pushing that attitude, what I'm saying is sometimes some of the hardcore or more outspoken fans of Phil scare people off, and I was saying you were jumping on me because as soon as I posted that, you responded with your disagreement. While I may be being a bit sensitive about it I admit, it's not constructive to just say I'm wrong.

I will clarify: I want Phil to discourage behaviour like that and make the forum a more welcoming place, even for people who may have criticisms, because more often than not I see that people with criticisms get shouted down. And it's not helpful at all, because a well functioning and nice community is very important for a youtuber.

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Phil, you may want to consider dropping the inflammatory language.  I mean things like this.  Even if(when) justified in your attacks, you aren't specific enough about who you're talking about--when you fire shots, it's with a machine gun while pirouetting on one toe.  See @TheBiz 's post for an example of someone caught by a stray 'bullet'.  You make enemies where you could have allies instead.  Your communication style makes me wonder if you want to create rancor in people.

Edited by lourat

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Phil, you may want to consider dropping the inflammatory language.  I mean things like this.  Even if(when) justified in your attacks, you aren't specific enough about who you're talking about--when you fire shots, it's with a machine gun while pirouetting on one toe.  See @TheBiz 's post for an example of someone caught by a stray 'bullet'.  You make enemies where you could have allies instead.  Your communication style makes me wonder if you want to create rancor in people.

I don't want a do-gooder soapy mouth vlogger, I like Phil as he can be honest and profane at times, that is totally OK. He says it in the same language as someone who had a bad day at the office sometimes, so what? That is part of being human. :wink:

Edited by Davey_J_Jr
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That's great but many people don't like this kind of language and that's why they stopped watching.Maybe you would change your mind if you were insulted for no reason by Phil just bc he had a bad day.Or maybe you wouldn't care which is fine.But don't tell me that part of being human is throwing insults and accusations often for no reason or bc his fans told him about something/someone.Like lourat said,he is often not specific enough.

I'm not saying Phil should become a fake person now.But there are definitely better ways to communicate/express yourself than what Phil often does.

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A few quick responses:

-I'm actually far LESS negative these days that I used to be. As in, I actually enjoy games a lot more and am less apt to blame a game/game dev like I used to. I can actually name a few cases in MGSV, and just last week in Transformers when there were some harsh difficulty spikes, but instead of going NUTS like I used to? After some initial rage I regrouped, learned and progressed. I'm doing that a lot more as a gamer now. Sadly the stigma of my doing it constantly years ago apparently doesn't clear up, because most people don't watch the new stuff but instead just talk about those old situations (not saying they don't happen at all today, but it's certainly way better now).

-I certainly don't remember anything about a Black Ops II beta, but for Tony Hawk, that game was AWFUL and it's agreed across the board how bad of a game it is. You may have just watched the one thing recently that WAS really bad and I raged on, by sheer coincidence. 

-The Trick2g situation is solely based off of him staging a SWATing and is spoken from the perspective of someone who HAS been SWATed and had his life put into danger. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of the stuff he does on a daily basis (and indeed, I never referenced nor criticized that at all). But the fact that 1. he did it and treated it as a joke, 2. he then created an air of hype/drama around it to PROFIT OFF OF IT is incredibly disgusting. As I said in my original statement: how someone who has a legit fanbase for good reasons and then could choose to do something like that SOLELY for more attention is incredibly insulting and disgusting. There are people being SWATed daily and it's a SERIOUS CRIME, not to be taken lightly. There is no defense from a logical, mature standpoint that can justify a fake SWATing at this time in 2015. If it weren't an increasingly more dangerous epidemic in several years? That would be a different story. But certainly not now - and the way that Twitch handled the situation was so unprofessional, it outright proved they're only in it for the money as well (which is sickening). AND the second that Trick2g decided to "Fake SWAT" for viewers, those viewers became nothing but dollar signs, and so did EVERYONE whose ever been SWATed for real. Seriously disgusting.

The other things you're mentioning when it comes to Twitch streamers don't apply to me. If I were to constantly be interacting, the on-demand videos that I make for YouTube (which are the majority of my income and viewerbase) would be ruined. YouTube viewers have FREQUENTLY expressed disappointment the few times that I even reference the stream chat, because they're not there live to share in that experience. I didn't get popular because of the "boom of live streaming" like the people you're referencing here, I got popular doing offline playthroughs and that's what the majority of the viewing audience are coming for. My most popular series as of late was Until Dawn, where the live stream was disabled and I played the ENTIRE thing cold, offline, with on stream chat or interaction. Completely flipping that formula would NOT work for me, despite it working for many others on Twitch.

 

But yeah, overall I can see your points. I'm doing what I can to change, improve, and constantly become better based on feedback. But when I DO actively do that (ask any active viewers from the past 2 years about how I've improved) and instead of positive change, I see months during a busy gaming season with the worst views I've EVER gotten? I tend to react and talk about this stuff publicly.

Seems the only way that I can get attention would be to copy the formulas of others, which I certainly don't want to do. Either becoming an "edited video/comedy YouTuber" or an "interactive Twitch streamer" would greatly compromise what I've strived to do on YouTube since day 1.

So what exactly is the right choice?

 

Hey, appreciate the reply. I'd like to follow up on a few more things to give you my perspective.

-Being far less negative is great, really. But I need you to consider that I was a guy who gave you multiple chances with two different streams and a few pre-streams/hate lives. Most people only give you one chance, and that first impression is huge. Do you think I would have watched you play Street Fighter IV so much if the first impression I got was you raging at the guy on the other end? Absolutely not. But I'm just saying that I gave your stuff a chance and was very underwhelmed and found them to be negative. That impression means a lot. I can't speak for your other playthroughs, but I'm just commenting on those streams. In particular, I think you were raging on Tony Hawk when, obviously, it wasn't a great game but you seemed to lack an understanding of the basic mechanics such as jumping over a lip, landing properly, grinding properly, etc.

-I purposefully kept my comments vague about the Trick2g situation and made it a passing comment to inform you that you weren't as informed about the situation as you thought. And right here you are trying to debate it with me, when I said I had a much greater understanding of it. I'm not going to comment on your SWATing situation, and yeah I won't exactly be defending SWATing at all, but you have many, many things you are incorrect on. First of all, Trick2g did that at the end of a 24 hour stream for charity. For 24 hours he had been streaming and raising money for charity and did a great job of it. During the stream people had joked about Trick being SWATed since it had been pretty rampant with Twitch streamers lately, and he would always tell it off like it's no big deal and it won't happen to him. So at the end of the stream he made a little skit about being SWATed that was very obviously fake for multiple reasons, but he just did it as a little joke towards his fans who had said that.

1) He didn't do it for attention. He doesn't need the attention. He had expected it to be taken as the dumb joke it was. Everyone else blew it up, not him. He didn't say anything about it on social media or anything of the like.

2) He didn't fake swat for more views because it was at the end of his stream and he was done with it after that.

3) The viewers didn't become dollar signs to him at all. Trick is actually very humble about doing Twitch for a job despite his rather outlandish personality, and you can tell every time he gets a subscriber or donation. He had just gotten finished with a charity stream, so you can't honestly tell me that he's just selfish and caring about the money after doing philanthropy.

4) Twitch banned him for a single day from the start just so they could tell him "Hey, that's in a bit of bad tastes. Don't do that." That's all. Nobody was hurt from this. There was no ill intent. It was just meant as a joke and Twitch understood that too.

Like, this is why I thought so lowly of you in the first place. You didn't understand all the details and you flew off the handle about him instead of just being more reserved about it. Instead of insulting the dude and taking pot shots about him just being some kind of view whore, why don't you just say "That was dumb of him and I'm offended as someone who is a victim of SWATing. I don't know the guy, but I absolutely don't agree with that." It would've been looked at as far more understanding and mature than trashing on him without knowing the whole situation.

- I know streamers who archive their streams on Youtube and it works out just fine. Their fans say stuff like "I wish I was there for that," but ultimately it doesn't take away much from it, really. I understand your hesitance, but think about it this way: you get to get people saying "Man I really should've been there for the stream" more often. I don't feel like people would be put off enough by you talking to the chat. But I think the main issue here is that you just have this perception of certain streamers and Youtubers without actually viewing their stuff, so I think you have a bit of a disconnect? I'm going to make an honest to goodness suggestion for you that I think you can benefit from a lot. Watch another streamer. You admit that you're not as successful as them right now, so why don't you watch one of them? I can recommend some I think do an outstanding job and have a really good turn out. I think it would do you good to see what they're doing right and that way you can take some influence. It wouldn't be copying a formula, it would just be applying some solid ideas to your own content.

If I had a suggestion for how I think you should format your channel going forward, and this is just my suggestion and I can't speak for how great of an idea it is, but I would probably set aside a time every day to stream and stream only that one game. So that way if people want to keep following one playthrough, they know when to tune in. And that way you have more consistency. And then I'd suggest doing other playthroughs offline and posting maybe a part or two. Because people can keep up with a part or two a day, but they can't keep up with the hours upon hours you put out daily. And then I'd work on other projects in the time in between, like vlogs and whatnot. I'm not sure what all the other content you do is besides that, but I think if you put a ton of effort into other things you'd pique more interest, because it seems like your other videos get more views than your gameplay does now, and I think oversaturation is the reason for that.

That's just my thoughts.

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Hey you can be a fan of someone but joking about something like SWATing which is illegal btw and can lead to some tragic consequences  is not a smart thing to do(and I don't want to use stronger language for it) and you trying to justify that kind of behavior is really weird to me.Every single of his fans should tell him that what he did was not funny and not OK and I don't care how good of a person he is.He simply fucked up in this situation and that happens to the nicest people.But that's just my 2 cents about that.Hopefully we can go back to topic now,enough offtopic from me.

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I don't want a do-gooder soapy mouth vlogger, I like Phil as he can be honest and profane at times, that is totally OK. He says it in the same language as someone who had a bad day at the office sometimes, so what? That is part of being human. :wink:

I don't see the point in mounting a defense about this.  You can defend it, but that's not the point.  People are going to feel like they were insulted and when there is a trickle of negative word through the grapevine that this guy might be an asshole, it's enough to push their opinion one way  versus another.  Because you know what's also human?  Reacting impulsively and not seeing the bigger picture--i.e. they're not going to see 'Phil had a bad day', they're just going to see 'Phil insulted X group of people and I am one of them and so I feel insulted, PLUS I hear a lot of negative things about him'.

I'm just saying be cognizant of it, because you can't change people but can change how you behave...

 

*EDIT Also I realise you thought I was talking about profanity; I was refering to slipping in insults against people (see the link I referenced).  I don't know if he's venting or what, but many times I've thought Phil wrote what would be a good post, if only he hadn't closed it with a sentence calling people participating in the thread idiots or something.  It adds nothing except a spirit of meanness.

I bet if Phil made a conscious resolution to never insult people (heck, just as an experiment), he may be surprised to find just how often he does it.

Edited by lourat

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I think that it was good of Phil to apologize for making mistakes and try to be more positive going forward. We're all human and make mistakes, but it's important to own up to them and move forward. Major kudos for that and you've got a +1 viewer here. 

With that said, I think you've  got a solid plan with the new channel. It would be the best of both worlds: continue to cater to your hardcore fanbase while also appealing to a broader, casual audience.

I think your idea for rebranding is good, but you don't want to completely abandon your image as that's what got you success thus far. Perhaps DarkSyde Productions/DSProductions, etc? Kinda goes along with the whole professional edited content image you want to present...something that sounds like quality, but it still has a touch of your image. That may not work but maybe it will get the wheels turning. 

Edited by ekriD
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I don't see the point in mounting a defense about this.  You can defend it, but that's not the point.  People are going to feel like they were insulted and when there is a trickle of negative word through the grapevine that this guy might be an asshole, it's enough to push their opinion one way  versus another.  Because you know what's also human?  Reacting impulsively and not seeing the bigger picture--i.e. they're not going to see 'Phil had a bad day', they're just going to see 'Phil insulted X group of people and I am one of them and so I feel insulted, PLUS I hear a lot of negative things about him'.

I'm just saying be cognizant of it, because you can't change people but can change how you behave...

 

*EDIT Also I realise you thought I was talking about profanity; I was refering to slipping in insults against people (see the link I referenced).  I don't know if he's venting or what, but many times I've thought Phil wrote what would be a good post, if only he hadn't closed it with a sentence calling people participating in the thread idiots or something.  It adds nothing except a spirit of meanness.

I bet if Phil made a conscious resolution to never insult people (heck, just as an experiment), he may be surprised to find just how often he does it.

I definitely agree with this. Also, while Phil may have his opinions about how Youtubers/streamers should act, he doesn't need to level personal insults. Things like what he said about Twitch streamers being beggars who only call out subs because they want money etc. really made me irritated because it's a generalization, and just because they do something differently doesn't mean it's wrong. And some people who could potentially be fans of his, but are fans of certain twitch streamers are going to be pissed off by this as well.  I know I was very annoyed by these, and while I managed to look past it, I know many people won't and it hurts his chances of expanding his fan base.

Basically I just got annoyed because I watch plenty of twitch streamers, and just because they acknowledge their fans who are willing to give them money, including myself for some, does NOT mean that they are interrupting game play for it. There are plenty like that, but what Phil is doing is generalizing, and it's just really off putting.

I really wanted to vent this, recent updates/prestreams have wound me up a little.

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Calm down guy, Phil can be wrong too, he admits when he is wrong you know if you read his Twitter. He is allowed to get stressed and exaggerate a bit, it's only human sometimes.

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