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LastRambo341

Do you think that the TIHYDP videos are leeching off of DSP's current/potential viewerbase?

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1 hour ago, Twin said:

Also is that you in your avatar? Surprised Phil has fans that are your age!

Athletes and Youtubers are not the same, come on what a ridiculous comparison. Football and Basketball fans range from all ages and as long as you can play and be healthy then you can entertain people at all ages. Youtubers have to constantly cater to snot nosed teenagers who's attention span for 1 to 7 minutes. Totally different game.

I hope Phil goes out in a bang like Kobe!! Because he can definitely save enough money for retirement

 

Edited by TheShowStopper

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TIHYDP > Leeching > Views > Youtube Monetization > Debt, Money, & Financing

They're all tied together. Plus this broad drama thread is everywhere, someone brought up basketball and football athletes for Pete's sake. Should go ahead and rename this thread "Random Thoughts about the TIHYDP series".

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Bah, I don't know why I bother posting this. I'm not defending Phil but I'll lay some facts down about TIHYDP. I was talking about this subject with some people recently and came to the conclusion that TIHYDP montages are illegal.

These montages are typically two to five hours long. Most of the people who make these videos argue that they fall under Fair use, but the majority of them do not. When considering whether these videos fall under Fair use, you have to keep certain factors in mind:

the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole;

the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use)

(http://ogc.harvard.edu/pages/copyright-and-fair-use)

These videos use several hours of his footage, which violates Fair use law. Why watch his original playthrough if someone sees a TIHYDP compilation in the related videos?

The videos showcase nothing but his bad gameplay, often with negative comments or jabs aimed at him. Due to the large number of TIHYDP videos produced, I can't help but believe that they damage Phil's reputation as people who watch them are likely to believe these videos are representative of his gameplay in general. Large compilations of his footage created with the intent to generate notoriety toward him violates Fair use law as well. See a similar case:

http://copyright.gov/fair-use/summaries/worldwrestling-bozell-sdny2001.pdf

 

Point being, if Phil took this matter to court they would rule in his favor and TIHYDP videos would be taken down from youtube. They aren't legal and have only damaged his business.

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5 minutes ago, KGhaleon said:

Bah, I don't know why I bother posting this. I'm not defending Phil but I'll lay some facts down about TIHYDP. I was talking about this subject with some people recently and came to the conclusion that TIHYDP montages are illegal.

These montages are typically two to five hours long. Most of the people who make these videos argue that they fall under Fair use, but the majority of them do not. When considering whether these videos fall under Fair use, you have to keep certain factors in mind:

the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole;

the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use)

(http://ogc.harvard.edu/pages/copyright-and-fair-use)

These videos use several hours of his footage, which violates Fair use law. Why watch his original playthrough if someone sees a TIHYDP compilation in the related videos?

The videos showcase nothing but his bad gameplay, often with negative comments or jabs aimed at him. Due to the large number of TIHYDP videos produced, I can't help but believe that they damage Phil's reputation as people who watch them are likely to believe these videos are representative of his gameplay in general. Large compilations of his footage created with the intent to generate notoriety toward him violates Fair use law as well. See a similar case:

http://copyright.gov/fair-use/summaries/worldwrestling-bozell-sdny2001.pdf

 

HAHA I love it you are a fucking genous KG; haha humor master :D

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3 minutes ago, TraditionalGames said:

Let's be honest here. Is Phil really going to sue someone over a video?

for the TIHYDP no never, that is never going to happen. I mean fuck! ;D are you fucking nuts?. That is not going to happen. No one have been hurt other than feelings. If you don't like the smoke in the bakery get out. 

Edited by BrightSideViking

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From my understanding if its just a cut and paste certain parts together then its illegal just like plagarism in college. However if it contain editing and/or comments of his own then i would say its fair use. Now how much those editing would be needed to consider it fair use is unknown. I dont study law and its an argueable topic, so unless its taken to court we will never know.

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The key part of fair use here is the section about Transformative work, which is usually the main argument used when it comes to copyright claims on youtube, unless it is just copy-pasting of videos then it would be illegal.

TIHYDP usually contain heavy editing and commentary which allows for the argument to come through.

it might not be benign in nature but it certainly falls under the legal framework.

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I had to comment on this. Let me just say that, yes, TIHYDP has siphoned views and viewers away from DarkSydePhil. But its several years too late. DSP is still the focus of the movement but it has undoubtedly evolved beyond him. There's TIHYDP's of Game Grumps, LowTierGod, and there are different variations of it now. It's pointless to talk trash or even try to counter them now. They have dozens of directors that make them, and they have so many views even if DSP wanted to make series like TIHYDP it would just fall behind all the TIHYDP videos that are out there in the search criteria.

This notion that TIHYDP's are illegal? Hilarious. There's hours of montages made of Markiplier, PewDiePie, etc that exist on Youtube that are not published by the original Youtuber. They have alot of views, and those would be the first to go if they were illegal on Youtube. The difference is that those Youtubers were saavy enough to realize that a large group of people would only want to watch the best/worst moments of their playthroughs and make it a priority early on to make montages (or have someone else make them) and post it on the original channel so it would be the number one place to get that content. What Phil fucking did was complain about the people making them, insulted them, and insulted the people that watched then which pretty much threw a gas truck into a wild fire, while all the while not being bothered to do anything about or edit his own content into digestible portions that the people obviously wanted to see on his channel.

Soo the fire continued on, and it just fucking gathered more energy and spread to the point its like the Centralia, Pennsylvania Coal Mine Fire, its just going to keep on burning probably even after Phil is done with Youtube (Or when Youtube is done with Phil, whichever comes first). So, in conclusion, whats the point of hating them and complaining about it now? It's like the old man shaking his fist at the kid's that walk on his front lawn. You can shake your fist as hard as you want, your old ass can't do shit about it.

Edited by BoomShakaLaka

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2 hours ago, BoomShakaLaka said:

 

Soo the fire continued on, and it just fucking gathered more energy and spread to the point its like the Centralia, Pennsylvania Coal Mine Fire, its just going to keep on burning probably even after Phil is done with Youtube (Or when Youtube is done with Phil, whichever comes first). So, in conclusion, whats the point of hating them and complaining about it now? It's like the old man shaking his fist at the kid's that walk on his front lawn. You can shake your fist as hard as you want, your old ass can't do shit about it.

Lol such a badass....Nope

 

4 hours ago, JasonX445 said:

I'm going to say this to all of you all on here, if you don't like TIHYDP video's then don't watch them plain and simple. I watch them and love em, I can't understand how you can defend a 34 year old man who only play games just for the money. I'm so tired of him blaming every god damn thing that happens when he plays games,I got so tired of hearing every excuse in the book with him blaming everything when it is in fact him making mistakes, never admitting his faults, someday guys he won't be around much longer, since you nutjobs love giving him money, but that's your business, what you do with your money is your business. One thing that cracks me up on these forums is everyone here act's like little children. You all need to act mature and grow up, supporting a grown man here that is so incompetent at everything. And KG i want to know one other thing, if you were done with all the drama then why do you keep coming back to it all. you always start trouble and it never gets you anywhere. If you dont like the TIHYDP vids KG then don't watch them. 

sock/troll account, I presume xD

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So.... every compilation of any youtuber on youtube is illegal? Damn son.

But yeah TIHYDP has taken a lot of possible views from Phil (and has more likely than not introduced more people to Phil that would never of known about him otherwise) and it's far too late to change it or complain about it.

Also gotta agree that it's basically evolved far beyond just simple Phil mocking at this point even if that is still at the core.

15 hours ago, KGhaleon said:

the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole;

the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

As for this however, if a TIHYDP is like an hour long using minute long clips and Phil's Let's play is over 20 hours long, the idea of "the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole" holds very little weight.

The second point you can certainly argue however. Though if your only leg to stand on is "They make Phil look bad" then the case will be as paper thin as a company taking a reviewer to court for giving their product a bad review.

Edited by Nation
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33 minutes ago, Nation said:

So.... every compilation of any youtuber on youtube is illegal? Damn son.

But yeah TIHYDP has taken a lot of possible views from Phil (and has more likely than not introduced more people to Phil that would never of known about him otherwise) and it's far too late to change it or complain about it.

Also gotta agree that it's basically evolved far beyond just simple Phil mocking at this point even if that is still at the core.

As for this however, if a TIHYDP is like an hour long using minute long clips and Phil's Let's play is over 20 hours long, the idea of "the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole" holds very little weight.

The second point you can certainly argue however. Though if your only leg to stand on is "They make Phil look bad" then the case will be as paper thin as a company taking a reviewer to court for giving their product a bad review.

Thanks for agreeing with me! I knew I wasn't crazy! Im actually one of those people that was introduced to DSP by the TIHYDP series. Thats why I said the series has evolved past him, the series has an outreach way longer than DarkSydePhil's regular content does and it has it's own fanbase at this point. It's free publicity, I don't know why Phil and his fans are tripping. If anything, embrace it.

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18 hours ago, BrightSideViking said:

for the TIHYDP no never, that is never going to happen. I mean fuck! ;D are you fucking nuts?. That is not going to happen. No one have been hurt other than feelings. If you don't like the smoke in the bakery get out. 

I think you completely misinterpreted my post.

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9 hours ago, Nation said:

So.... every compilation of any youtuber on youtube is illegal? Damn son.

But yeah TIHYDP has taken a lot of possible views from Phil (and has more likely than not introduced more people to Phil that would never of known about him otherwise) and it's far too late to change it or complain about it.

Also gotta agree that it's basically evolved far beyond just simple Phil mocking at this point even if that is still at the core.

As for this however, if a TIHYDP is like an hour long using minute long clips and Phil's Let's play is over 20 hours long, the idea of "the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole" holds very little weight.

The second point you can certainly argue however. Though if your only leg to stand on is "They make Phil look bad" then the case will be as paper thin as a company taking a reviewer to court for giving their product a bad review.

Transformative, parody, they all fall under fair use and are invalidated by my points above. An hour is still a good amount of content to be taking from Phil's videos for your montage, and I seriously can't think of any justification that would give you a free pass to upload hours of footage you don't own. Ten or two minute montages I wouldn't have an issue with, but three hours? People who upload movie reactions on youtube get copyright strikes even if they put their face or voice over the content. Disney will take your shit down instantly. Alot of individuals have turned to Dailymotion to upload larger copyrighted videos in hopes of dodging youtubes content ID system. I've watched reactions for shows like Steven Universe, game of thrones, etc and people will often try altering the copyrighted audio or video to avoid strikes despite their own face and voice being on the videos. They get taken down regardless, so the "transformative" excuse doesn't work.

Just because there are fan montages produced by other fandoms doesn't mean they are legal, just that nobody cares enough to have them taken down. Most of the ones I've seen for other youtubers were fairly harmless and not just blatantly trying to take potshots at that person.

Edited by KGhaleon
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1 hour ago, KGhaleon said:

Transformative, parody, they all fall under fair use and are invalidated by my points above. An hour is still a good amount of content to be taking from Phil's videos for your montage, and I seriously can't think of any justification that would give you a free pass to upload hours of footage you don't own. Ten or two minute montages I wouldn't have an issue with, but three hours? People who upload movie reactions on youtube get copyright strikes even if they put their face or voice over the content. Disney will take your shit down instantly. Alot of individuals have turned to Dailymotion to upload larger copyrighted videos in hopes of dodging youtubes content ID system. I've watched reactions for shows like Steven Universe, game of thrones, etc and people will often try altering the copyrighted audio or video to avoid strikes despite their own face and voice being on the videos. They get taken down regardless, so the "transformative" excuse doesn't work.

Just because there are fan montages produced by other fandoms doesn't mean they are legal, just that nobody cares enough to have them taken down. Most of the ones I've seen for other youtubers were fairly harmless and not just blatantly trying to take potshots at that person.

Im sorry I have to stop you there. How is creating a montage featuring a Youtuber's worst moments taking potshots at that very person playing the game? I admit there are video's out there that are just purely made to criticize Phil, but the majority of the TIHYDP video's are just digestible versions of his epic long gameplay playthrough's. If you don't like the comments pasted all over the video's that are derived from the comment section of the original video. Turn off comment's. If you don't like the footage of you playing badly being used against you. Stop uploading everything to Youtube or Play better. It's that simple.

If Youtube's strict ass contentID system doesn't blink twice at it and flagging those videos does nothing then that should tell you they're not illegal on the Youtube site. Bottom line is DSP is not a television show or a billion dollar company that originated somewhere else and came to Youtube. DSP is a Youtuber, quite frankly, the same rules don't apply and he doesn't nearly have enough influence (or money) to change anything he doesn't like on the site that doesn't initially violate Youtubes rules. If you don't like it, try suing them until you run out of money, or Phil can fix it by doing the two things i mentioned above, if not then I don't know what to tell you other than complaining and screaming "it's illegal" does and means nothing. As a fan, you should just ignore them and don't watch them if a Youtube video bothers you that much. In fact just make another Youtube account and set your age to under 13 or set your content controls to restrict adult content and I guarantee you you'll never have to see a TIHYDP or an offensive video again.

And @LastRambo341, nobody can't do anything and people should stop complaining. Its pointless this late in the game so why do it.

And @Phil if you're reading this why the hell did you lock the "Buy the Move Controllers" thread, I don't see the big deal on spending another $30 on a peripheral you're never going to use again when you're about to spend $400 on a peripheral your never going to use again.

Edited by BoomShakaLaka

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3 minutes ago, BoomShakaLaka said:

And @LastRambo341, nobody can't do anything and people should stop complaining. Its pointless this late in the game so why do it.

I think you completely forgot the subject of my thread. This is not about me wanting to flag down/asking Phil to flag down the videos.

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1 hour ago, KGhaleon said:

Transformative, parody, they all fall under fair use and are invalidated by my points above. An hour is still a good amount of content to be taking from Phil's videos for your montage, and I seriously can't think of any justification that would give you a free pass to upload hours of footage you don't own. Ten or two minute montages I wouldn't have an issue with, but three hours? People who upload movie reactions on youtube get copyright strikes even if they put their face or voice over the content. Disney will take your shit down instantly. Alot of individuals have turned to Dailymotion to upload larger copyrighted videos in hopes of dodging youtubes content ID system. I've watched reactions for shows like Steven Universe, game of thrones, etc and people will often try altering the copyrighted audio or video to avoid strikes despite their own face and voice being on the videos. They get taken down regardless, so the "transformative" excuse doesn't work.

Just because there are fan montages produced by other fandoms doesn't mean they are legal, just that nobody cares enough to have them taken down. Most of the ones I've seen for other youtubers were fairly harmless and not just blatantly trying to take potshots at that person.

But then what is the difference between someone making a montage of footage they don't own the rights to and uploading it and Phil who uploads entire games that he doesn't own the rights to, with basically no editing and nothing changed in any way, and uploading the entire thing with ads on it to make money off a product he didn't create?

In the eyes of the law wouldn't they be the same thing? 

You can say Phil's protected by fair use because what he does is transformative but what dictates that uploading an entire game unchanged for monetary profit is fine but montages is not? Because honestly with the legal grey area Let's Plays are in at the moment, to me at least, they seem just as legal as one another.

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9 minutes ago, LastRambo341 said:

I think you completely forgot the subject of my thread. This is not about me wanting to flag down/asking Phil to flag down the videos.

Never said you did, but this thread was purely made to complain about TIHYDP taking views about 2 1/2 - 3 years too late to do anything about it. This thread is just blowing alot of hot air around when like I just described if the video's bother you that bad just set your account to block adult content and you never have to see a TIHYDP video again, but if you can handle adult content and can ignore certain videos then do that. TIHYDP has a fanbase and has evolved past Phil. If you don't like them, cool, but don't scream their "illegal" and they are "leeching off of Phil" to try to get them off the website when they're not and Phil isn't providing any content to match what TIHYDP's are doing. Its pointless!

Edited by BoomShakaLaka

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I would also like to mention that a transformitive work is actually still considered copyright infringement. The only exception is fair use and fair use is a defense you take in court which is decided by the judge. Simply put the court will determine wheather or not the video "Fair". I doubt a court would say a video filled with insults and is the full playthrough cut up rather than just highlights as a fair work.

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