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Feedback to Ad Fiasco Update


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So if you haven't seen Phil's update video, Machinima's only recommendation to increase the ad revenue is to shorten the length of the video to be around 10-15 minutes. Would you guys be ok with shorter videos in the future? Personally I would be fine with them since video length never really mattered to me. And I know people will complain about the sub boxes being flooded, but that should be a non-issue at this point.

I guess my only suggestion to Phil would be to wait until the end of the week to change the video length because, despite YouTube being slow in responding, may find a reason for the ad revenue dip and fix it quickly. Starting Monday would probably be the earliest to do this,

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I'd be fine. I only ask that the videos have titles to them as opposed to his legacy playthroughs that only say part 1, part 2, part 3, etc... Personally having shorter videos would make it easier to see where I am in the playthrough. Just my two cents

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I suppose...but only because when I actually think about it most of the other YTbers I have subbed only upload about 40-50 mins of video a day, and usually 2 vids per day so 20-25 mins or so per video...still I'd say 15 mins is the minimum.. 10 is on the margin tbh..

Edited by MrMilad
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52 minutes ago, HandsomeJack said:

Sub boxes being flooded isn't an issue because Phil could easily spread the videos out rather than uploading all 20 at once. He could even use scheduled uploads so they go up automatically.

That's a very valid point, and I could see where half of the videos made could come out at once like usual, but then if there's no other stream or gameplay for the day, schedule the other half of the videos during the late night.

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Also new to this forums. Just created an account to give some feedback as DSP is one of the only lets play channels I watch.

 

Personally, I don't care about my sub box being filled because I usually just watch everything in a playlist anyway. However, other lets play channels I watch that have the same amount of subs as Phil upload about 20 minute videos. The only thing I wish Phil did was change the thumbnails on his videos to just show the game, the part #, and what happens in the video for the title. Sweet, short, clickable.

But it sounds to me like that won't really change anything since the problem is on Youtube's end. I'd say the best way to go about it is to get bigger youtubers to talk about it too, that might even get more traffic to Phil's channel. It might even get Youtube to get their shit together for just 1 second. I mean big youtubers like to talk gossip about people who don't deserve attention at all and this can actually help someone who's been on youtube since the beginning.

 

Those are my thoughts.

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Editing vids is not the end of his raw style. I understand wanting to make the most money possible doing the least amount of work possible, that's the smart play, but in the long run it's much better for him overall to start editing his gameplay. A YTer I recently started watching, doesn't script in jokes or edit out the fails in their entirety and he releases long videos that I'd say average between 35-45 minutes, some going longer/shorter depending on the game. This includes the games he has no experience with (granted his most popular series are so because they are of games he has a great deal of knowledge in) and despite editing the viewer gets a feel for the entirety of the game. Instead of fumbling around an area, he'll start the cut with him saying "right, it's around here somewhere" show him looking for a second or two and if it takes too long he'll jump cut to "right, here it is all the way over here in the back." If he does have significant trouble finding/doing something through trial and error there will be multiple cuts that are only long enough for him to say "nope...not here...not here either...dammit....where the hell....found the bastard, here's where it is" then maybe he'll show an abbreviated version of what he did if possible. Unedited that very well may be upward of 6-10 minutes of raw footage, possibly more if there are loading screens, but the viewer gets 6ish seconds, a laugh, and feel for the actual gameplay experience. Doing it this way you're not forced to be entertaining for an entire 10 minute period where nothing is really happening on screen, the viewer either doesn't get dead silence (which is understandable in some cases because there might not be anything to say) or a joke/comment that doesn't really add anything to the video. This is just one example of how editing benefits the video without stripping it of what DSP prides himself on providing, a true representation of the game.

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Did machinima really said that? Why would shorter vids help if its all ad-based now and not views? His problem should be "how to make ppl stick arnd and keep coming back to watch him".

edit: ok nvm saw the vlog, his problem is still how to make ppl stick arnd tho. But i can see that the shorter vids is a cheap way of fixing it. I can sort of see why youtube is doing what they r doing now too but i wont say it cos it phil wont understand it anyway.

Edited by Chachamaru
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Hello dsp, I have followed your channel for 5 years. This is the second Time I wrote here on the forum. There are following problems. You upload too much videos every day. My sub Box just buried with 10-15 of your videos daily. If you made shortening the length of his gameplay videos. You get more Views but this leads many subscribers unfollow you and lose interest to your Channel.

As example The first Videos gets like 20-30 likes and less dislikes, then you upload a video like "OOPS! Sorry For Short Video" Have you seen a Youtuber that upload a Gameplay for 1-3 Minutes because I dont. Then in the last Videos you get a lot of dislikes.

My suggestion would be. First upload the first 4 Parts of Gameplay 10-15 minutes then the next Parts around 40-60 Minutes and the last Parts 10-15 minutes of the twitch stream. Do once per month a Kickstarter review and upload to KO Gaming. You go to the Kickstarter page and look for the indie games. In the Future you can play Games with your Patreons and Fans.The useful thing to your channel if you play some unknown games such as the Pathalogic The Marble Nest.

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I say try it up to when you next get paid by machinima and see if the change has boosted your ad revenue, I think dsp should try out a new idea once a month until something catches on and gives his channel big views. 

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Honestly, just looking at your vlog, there were probably 4 ads on it. Which is a pretty heavy amount for a 30 minute video. I recently tried watching your resident evil 7 playthrough, and I was really enjoying it, but I ended up stopping 5 videos in because there were so many ads. I understand that you need to make a living, and you should absolutely be paid for the work you do. Whatever some people may say, this is a real business, and a real job. You create entertaining content, and make money for it. And I get that. But while watching your videos, as soon as I start to get immersed in the gameplay and your commentary, an ad starts playing. And the more I watched, the more off putting it was. I am a very casual viewer, so maybe I'm just fickle lol.

 

I know that I probably wouldn't watch your stuff as much, because even as it is, I get pretty frustrated with the level of ads. I heard that you can select the kinds of ads you want on your videos, have you thought about putting 6 second ads in instead of those skippable after 5 seconds ads? Because those are the most obnoxious. If I have my phone playing in my pocket for example with earbuds in, and a skippable ad comes on, I have to stop what I am doing, fish my phone out, and skip the ad. The 6 second ones are much more bearable. I realize that you probably make less money from those, but it's just a thought.

 

The other problem is flooding sub boxes. Subscribers don't necessarily earn you money, but if you look in the analytics of your percentage of video views, and how many of those are subbed vs unsubbed, I would imagine you are around maybe 15-20 percent sub views? And subs are important because they give you not only a big boost in views as soon as you upload, but they are also an indication of how healthy your channel is, and what your viewer engagement is. As you mentioned, people already don't want to sub because their sub box will get flooded, and shortening your videos will not only increase people unsubbing, but the increase in ads will be off putting to new viewers.

 

 

SO, here is my suggestion. I would be much more inclined to watch your videos (even the short ones) If you were to edit them a bit, because right now, if you cut down to 10-15 minute videos, it is entirely possible that some of those videos (Which the user has to watch ads on) will have nothing of consequence or entertaining happen in them. You have said yourself that you upload raw, unedited gameplay, even the boring parts. Which is fine, if that's what you want to do. BUT, cutting down to 10 minute videos, where the user has to watch an ad, just for nothing at all to happen, is INCREDIBLY frustrating. Now I am not saying there need to be jump cuts every ten seconds with you screaming into the mic, but I am saying that if you get, say, lost in a game, just include a few seconds of that, then cut out the rest, and jump to the point where you find where you are supposed to go. Just skipping over really simple stuff like that is really easy to do. It won't take you hours, and hours, and hours of editing like a review for KOGaming.

 

I know you want to keep your stuff raw, but if people want to see that, they can watch you live stream. Again, I am just saying you should cut out the stuff like getting lost. Unnecessary, non entertaining, boring stuff should not be in your videos, ESPECIALLY if you are going to cut down to 10-15 minute videos. If you decide to give that a try, it is absolutely necessary that you edit your videos, just a TINY bit, to cut out the very boring parts.

 

The other plus is that it will most likely drive up audience retention, which should be your main focus. Remember, this uploading 10 minute videos will be a a band-aid fix. You still need to focus on increasing audience retention

 

Anyway, that's all I've got. Good luck to you Phil. I don't want to see you lose your job, and stop doing something you love. I have a tiny channel, just passed 1k subs, and I would be fucking bummed if I had to stop doing it, so I can't imagine how you feel. 

 

Best wishes.

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The flooding of the sub boxes is a non issue. First of all all the videos are uploaded more or less at the same time. And if you are not interested you just scroll past them. 
And mostly I think people use the little bell feature On the channels they really want updates from. I have that enabled on KO gaming and Kingofhatevlogs. 
But not on DSP gaming. Because the DSP gaming one is almost like a regularly scheduled program anyways. 
You know when and what to find there if you are interested. 
However If you are going to shorten the clips. A minimum effort may have to be put in to it. 
Your schtick Is that you want the raw unedited feeling. Because that gives an accurate representation of the game. 
But You still upload things that are just totally unnecessary. Things that aren't fail, success, or anything in between. 
If you are so stubborn, and adamant people want to watch boring and empty content. Upload the whole stream in one movie. And Do an absolute minimum of editing to the shorter clips you are uploading. 
I know the reason you don't do this is "time" you simply don't have the time to go an do that. Because you don't only have to record the content. You would have to edit it too. 
And that means watching through everything you have uploaded. Which takes at minimum at least the time of the content it self. 
I have some bad news for you. That is the "real job" The time consuming part is to eliminate what is unwatchable so you keep your viewers.
There is just no way around it. This is the problem and If you don't get good at this. And use your precious time doing this things will never be any better for DSP  gaming.   
Raw and unedited footage = Boring and unwatchable content.  No matter how many times you split it up. 
The only justification you can have to do that. Is if you include the streamchat. Because that could be distracting enough to keep people watching, even when what you are doing is pure cancer. and editing things out in that case will ruin the continuity of the chat. 

I am sure if you just shorten the clips that it would help the "viewer retention percentage" And might help with your revenue.  But it wouldn't be a solution to the problem. Just a really bad workaround. 
What you have to realize is that your time isn't shorter, or more worth than anyone else. You either have to team up with someone that can do some work for you. Or the sacrifice would be your time.
But hey phil,  you can simply do nothing. keep loosing altitude, and hope something changes before you crash.
Who knows, maybe youtube would change their algorithm to favor clips with a short viewer retention rate.   Because if you just watch a small part of a video it means that it is really good, right? /kappa /dolan /derpface /whathever 

Now I will give you this. When you have baited a person in to watching an ad. Even though your video wasn't what that person where looking for. 
You should get your cut. Even if you tricked someone in to watching basically just the ad. I see why google/youtube "booksmart" people don't want to favor that. But Someone watched their ad. And that is how they make their living. So they should pay you for it. 

1 minute ago, Atree said:

Honestly, just looking at your vlog, there were probably 4 ads on it. Which is a pretty heavy amount for a 30 minute video. I recently tried watching your resident evil 7 playthrough, and I was really enjoying it, but I ended up stopping 5 videos in because there were so many ads. I understand that you need to make a living, and you should absolutely be paid for the work you do. Whatever some people may say, this is a real business, and a real job. You create entertaining content, and make money for it. And I get that. But while watching your videos, as soon as I start to get immersed in the gameplay and your commentary, an ad starts playing. And the more I watched, the more off putting it was. I am a very casual viewer, so maybe I'm just fickle lol.

Also a good point. Oversaturation with ads is not helping your at all. If you see too many of those yellow bars, you get discuraged for watching whatever it is. Unless you are using adblock. And don't see them, but then you wan't make shit on it anyways. 
Not overstaturating your videos with ads, is maybe the easiest thing you can do also. 

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How about shorten your videos by editing them? Instead of uploading 4 hours of raw video, upload only 4x15mins edited clips?

You said that "other youtubers" edit their videos by cutting out the boring stuff. Bot thats not you. Well... if you leave in the boring stuff in and make us watch it, you are wasting our time.

Also, make custom numbered thumbnails. That takes a very little effort.

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1 hour ago, BrightSideViking said:

The flooding of the sub boxes is a non issue. First of all all the videos are uploaded more or less at the same time. And if you are not interested you just scroll past them. 
And mostly I think people use the little bell feature On the channels they really want updates from. I have that enabled on KO gaming and Kingofhatevlogs. 
But not on DSP gaming. Because the DSP gaming one is almost like a regularly scheduled program anyways. 
You know when and what to find there if you are interested. 
 

I'm not entirely sure that is true. Even Phil mentioned it being a problem, and that it affects the amount of subscribers he has. Again, I'm just thinking of the average viewer, and if they sub,then suddenly their sub box is flooded, they are likely to unsub. 

I could be entirely wrong though. 

Quote

Also a good point. Oversaturation with ads is not helping your at all. If you see too many of those yellow bars, you get discuraged for watching whatever it is. Unless you are using adblock. And don't see them, but then you wan't make shit on it anyways. 
Not overstaturating your videos with ads, is maybe the easiest thing you can do also. 

THIS. If I click on a video and I see all those little yellow bars, I click away. The gaming genre is really over saturated at this point, so people can go to another play through with less ads.

From what I understand, the whole point of uploading shorter videos is to get people to see even MORE ads, which is already at a level where it is off putting. But just like BrightSideViking said, raw gameplay, without anything interesting happening, is just a waste of the viewers time. I know I don't watch "Lets plays" to see every part of the game, and to then decide if I should buy it. I watch it to firstly be entertained, and then to see some of the interesting content, and if it is something I would enjoy playing. 

You might not even have to watch the entire thing. You can make mental notes of footage that can be cut out, or hell, even write down the time code really quickly. Your audience retention is death by a thousand cuts. There are a bunch of little things that are making it so people aren't watching much of your video. Whenever I check my audience retention, I then click on the video, and go to the spot where the majority of people stopped watching, and see what happened. Why did the vast majority of people stop at that point? Did I say something? Was it getting dull? What was that thing that made people want to stop watching? After doing that with every video, my audience retention went from 40 percect on average, to 68 percent, and is only getting better. And these are on 15-20 minute videos. If you check, I wouldn't be surprised if people stopped watching at the point where an ad came on.

 

On average, I am gaining 40-50 subs a day, and I have had my channel up for a month. But every day, I look at every little piece of the analytics, and do everything possible to tweak my uploads to increase viewership and audience retention. 

 

The other thing I wanted to mention was comments. Engaging with the audience through comments drives audience retention through the roof. I make a point to respond to every single comment, and it has helped massively.


 

Edited by Atree
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I'm new to the message board, fan for the last couple of years, semi-regular in the chat from IRC to Twitch. Not much of a message board person, but I wanted to give my two cents. 

I agree with the poll. Shorter videos is going to do some irreparable damage. I have unsubscribed from a number of channels, because they have flooded my feed and, by that very nature, kept me from seeing videos I really would have enjoyed. On top of that, I almost never go back to them because if I just go to their page, I'm overwhelmed with the sheer amount of videos and it's not worth my time. It feels like work just being a fan of that kind of channel. 

I'm in marketing & advertising, so I have some opinions on this ad revenue situation now that I've seen Phil's video. It sounds to me like the percentage of people who watch a few minutes of his videos are bailing on his content. That doesn't make him advertiser unfriendly, but it makes his videos less desirable to advertisers who would pay more for ad space. As a result, Phil is being fitted with lower paying ads by advertisers who are casting a larger net and essentially placing their ads everywhere on the cheap.

Imagine you're selling a Ford F-150. The starting price for that is almost $27,000. The kind of ad space you want is to a channel where the viewer sees your ad, watches the whole video, and becomes a repeat viewer of that channel - Why? So that when that repeat viewer keeps coming back, they keep seeing ads for the Ford F-150. That's a more valuable and higher priced ad space paying to push a product over repeated ads for to a repeat viewer. It ingrains your product, and is an investment in their potential buy.

Now consider that Phil's viewers dropping off after a few minutes. A higher paying ad is going to be less invested in continuing to pay for Phil's ad space, or ad space in his tier. So as the value of his ad space goes down, so too does the pay. Suddenly, your ads are all sandwiches from fast food restaurants - because that product is cheap and because selling it is easy. Markets that sell a cheaper product, especially food sales, don't place as much value in ad space because they have a consistent flow of customers regardless. 

As the price and quality of Phil's ad space goes down, the lower he makes. Because if Ford is paying $10 to Google for Phil's ad space, maybe Taco Bell is paying $3. 

The best solution to improving ad marketability is quality, which means the video content needs to change in order to keep the viewer for the duration of the video. In Phil's vlog, he talks about viewers getting bored at the raw unedited video and leaving the page. In order to keep that viewer engaged, the raw unedited style needs to be dropped. Phil himself has said he doesn't want to change his style, but has acknowledged that both his core base wants more edited content and that raw unedited videos aren't working anymore. If you know it's not working, even if you don't want to change it, you have to change it. On top of that, if views are on the decline and the style isn't changing, you're only making videos for a base that is shrinking. 

Short term anything isn't going to save the business. It will only plug a hole in one place, while another hole bursts open somewhere else. Long term, I think Phil needs to do the following:

  • Stream less: Before going back to Twitch, it was recommended Phil stream less. He agreed. But since returning to Twitch, the streams have been pretty consistent - meaning at least one per day. The problem with live streaming is that the 200-1000 views it gets live don't translate to YouTube views, where any ad money (good or bad) is going to come from. Phil himself has said that when he streams every day, it becomes less special. I would stream a new game once or twice to give viewers a taste of the game and my take on it, but then put the rest on YouTube exclusively.
  • Edited playthroughs: Again, if it is accepted that raw and unedited isn't keeping the viewer around and is a style on the decline, edited playthroughs is the only way to keep them engaged. My recommendation would be to play off stream more often and keep a notepad by your side. I'm not saying to put down the controller and make a big deal of taking notes, but rather when something interesting happens, a boss fight, a death, something funny happens or even some stuff you could edit out, look at OBS or a stopwatch on your phone and jot down the timestamp. Since this is off stream, you can use the moments you'd be monitoring the chat and replace it with just writing something down on a piece of paper. It's not that time consuming just to take notes. That's going to give you a general idea where some good content is and make it easier to go back, cherry pick the good stuff and then edit it into a digestable, engaging video. And the more digestable, the easier it is for a viewer to stick with the entire video. In the long term, that's going to bring your quality of ads (and pay for those ads) up. 
  • Less games: I know the response to my second point is that there is no time to do editing because you're a one-man band. The problem is that you try so hard to play every single game to appease everyone. I don't think that works. You need to pick and choose based on a criteria of your own with things like: do I want to play this; does my existing audience want to see this; is there an audience outside of my reach that might see this or is it too niche; etc. The more games you play that you genuinely want to play, the more enjoyable it is for you, and that translates to the viewer. Remember when The Division came out? Phil refused to play it because he didn't want to play it. And that was the right call. Can you imagine how that playthrough would have gone if he forced himself to play it. Already unhappy to be playing it? That translates to an angry video where neither Phil or the audience is having any fun. And that's less views. 

Those are my points anyway. Figure out what you want to play, stream it to attract a live audience, then finish it with edited videos.

It comes down to quantity over quality. If I have a hamburger shop that used to make a ton of money, but isn't drawing as many customers anymore, the answer isn't to buy more stock and make even more burgers that aren't selling. It's to change the style of my burger or my menu. In your case, Phil, this means taking on less games (and the stress of playing everything) and changing the style a bit to get the old viewers or, more importantly, brand new viewers.  And if you can edit that stuff down to keep the audience's attention, whether the video is 10 or 30 minutes won't matter.

Good luck with whatever you do. And sorry for the length of my first post!

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Hello Phil,

a little info for your Channel

187.035 subscribers • 381.591.040 views

Joined 15.04.2010

 

Kuplinov ► Play (Russian Gameplayer)

2.935.325 subscribers • 1.048.678.169 views

Joined 23.12.2012

 

Gronkh (German Gameplayer)

4.553.383 subscribers • 2.153.463.180 views

Joined 12.03.2006

 

You should have at least 1.Million Subscribers and Views.

Edited by alex89
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7 minutes ago, alex89 said:

Hello Phil,

a little info for your Channel

187.035 subscribers • 381.591.040 views

Joined 15.04.2010

 

Kuplinov ► Play (Russian Gameplayer)

2.935.325 subscribers • 1.048.678.169 views

Joined 23.12.2012

 

Gronkh (German Gameplayer)

4.553.383 subscribers • 2.153.463.180 views

Joined 12.03.2006

 

You should have at least 1.Million Subscribers and Views.

How is this at all helpful or relevant? 

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19 minutes ago, Atree said:

How is this at all helpful or relevant? 

This is a little Information for Phil, Atree I dont know if you seen one of these Youtubers. 

These are known in the Country. Every Video has lots of views.

They play like Minecraft or Happy Wheels. 

 

Edited by alex89
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Shortening the vids is a temporary solution I feel. If that helps Phil in the short term I agree with it, but in the long term I feel that you should do some editing to increase the interest people have in watching them. You should be cutting out things that are uninteresting to viewers. A lot of the popular Let's Players out there like RadBrad do that coupled with almost 30 minute long videos. Even so people are still asking him in comments to do LONGER videos! Watch RadBrad. He's not 'fake' like you say a lot of YouTubers are, and he releases less videos because of all the editing he does but attracts OVER A MILLION views for many videos! His latest Horizon video was uploaded just yesterday and already has 162,982 views at the time I write this. I feel this is because his videos are pretty condensed and focused, cutting out the busywork where he runs around the Horizon Zero Dawn world, (that same busywork is a huge proportion of your Horizon videos) for example, and cuts to the more interesting parts like combat, dialogue, fails and successes. Learn from similar channels and take pointers from how they do things now. Be adaptive. 

Your views and traffic are dropping, because simply put, the raw unedited footage you upload is frequently boring to watch for long periods of time. For example, the time you spend walking around and doing random mundane stuff in Horizon. That could very easily be cut out. Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be mean, I have been watching you a lot since 2011 and I want to see you succeed and be happy with your life. But at this stage shortening the videos is a band aid to the real problem. I agree with the other posters that quality=/=quantity. Editing your videos more for more compelling and entertaining footage is the thing you're going to have to do. Pretty soon. Sacrifices will have to be made with your time, or you could hire someone from the community to help you out with this. Putting out less videos is not necessarily a bad thing. Or don't change your approach, and one day I'm afraid that you'll have to accept that your career on Youtube is unsustainable and is going to have to end. I don't want to see that happen to you, so this is why I'm speaking honestly and truthfully about this. 

 

 

Edited by Royal_Phalanx91
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