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Phil, DO NOT turn your YouTube channel into a Twitch Channel


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This thread is a preemptive strike incase this happens, I watch DSP for his willingness to be the opposite of the average Twitch streamer which is why I watch him over a lot of people now. His content is a lot like watching a TV show which is a style that is forgotten with a lot of streamers nowadays which is a shame.

All this interrupting the stream due to bits/donations thanking individual people in the chat who want attention in the middle of nowhere is what's going to drive me away, DSP is interesting in the fact that he has refused to do it all this time which I commend him for, but I hope it doesn't go that way as it looks like it is.

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He needs to do it to survive sadly. 

I'm with you though. I don't like it. Honestly though it ain't as bad as I thought it would be. Still the absolute WORST part is the shitty chat interaction. If he can cut that shit out then I can deal with it. Chat interaction is seriously the worst. It is just so distracting. With chat donations yeah Phil reads the message and moves on. With chat he reads wrong information from trolls or ignorant people and fumbles around the game wasting time. 

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48 minutes ago, Aceman said:

He needs to do it to survive sadly. 

I'm with you though. I don't like it. Honestly though it ain't as bad as I thought it would be. Still the absolute WORST part is the shitty chat interaction. If he can cut that shit out then I can deal with it. Chat interaction is seriously the worst. It is just so distracting. With chat donations yeah Phil reads the message and moves on. With chat he reads wrong information from trolls or ignorant people and fumbles around the game wasting time. 

Handholding is no interaction. It should be a 2 way thing. It pisses me off every time when they spoil the game, help him, sometimes bitcheer-help (most pathetic thing) him.

I often watch Cinemassacre stream and Mike talks to the chat, not just let them help him and/or doing a q&a. Thats interaction.

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I agree until he get's his youtube partnership (preferably a managed one) situation sorted this is something he has to do, I have watched other streamers take breaks from gameplay during the stream and use this time to do the chat interaction, that way it doesn't interfere with the gameplay and also when he does get his partnerships sorted he can edit the chat interaction out of the youtube videos.

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In reality what have happened is that he focuses more on twitch, rather than youtube. And the two very separate things. 
If you just saw the stream, there is no reason to think you will go and see the playthrough on youtube. So we have to assume the two are for different audiences. 
So what happened before is that he recorded for a youtube audience while streaming on twitch. social blade.png

These are some user statistics from both twitch and youtube. 
Even though at face value they seem to show similar tendencies it is one huge difference. From october 2014 to november 2016 he wasn't there at all. 
That is why you see  a straight graph from one point to another. It doesn't make an accurate representation because there was no activity. 
Here is a lesson in Marketing. If the graph look Like the one in DSP gaming something is wrong. In fact we know the revenue per view have decreased also. 
So what you see there is certain doom. 
You are either a marked leader, follower, or niche. Phil has a niche business on youtube. And that in and of it self would be ok. If he had seen some growth. 
But this trend shows none. He have said he won't change his recipe. It's raw unedited content all the way. 
As a comparison it would almost be like selling VHS tapes in the early 2000's.
 


On twitch on the other hand. It's a different story. Because phil just went from a niche, to become a marked follower. And the trend is different. 
It seem like he have understood that this is the way forward as well. This is definitely where his focus should be. 
And that even if he would get a new managed partnership on youtube. If he still want to archive his streams on youtube, that is probably fine, and might make more sense as well. 
But the change was needed. 
A suggestion:
If he is going to keep the Videos on youtube he should maybe consider uploading two different versions as well. One with the whole stream chat, and notifications, as well as the raw edition without it. A little edited like he used to. 

These are just my thoughts in regards to DSP gaming and Twitch. I consider KO gaming and his Vlogging different entities. 

 

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With all due respect, who cares why you watch him? His hardcore YouTube fanbase was not enough to sustain him.

So many businesses make that mistake. "But.., if I change, I'll lose my most loyal customers!"

Yes - your 20 loyal customers.

If Phil does not want to go get a normal job, then he needs to change. The reason why he has been failing is because people found him less interesting. You can think of any work around you like, but it comes down to that. He needs to be interesting!

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3 hours ago, MyFunnyValentine said:

With all due respect, who cares why you watch him? His hardcore YouTube fanbase was not enough to sustain him.

So many businesses make that mistake. "But.., if I change, I'll lose my most loyal customers!"

Yes - your 20 loyal customers.

If Phil does not want to go get a normal job, then he needs to change. The reason why he has been failing is because people found him less interesting. You can think of any work around you like, but it comes down to that. He needs to be interesting!

Its not about loyalty, it's about integrity and not becoming the run of the mill e-begging Twitch streamer. It's about putting the quality of the content before anything else, which won't happen if you do interrupt the stream constantly due to bits and donations. Something DSP said himself.

 

All I am saying is dont bring that shit to YouTube, there is a reason why I stopped watching Twitch streamers all together years ago.

Edited by FloydMayweather
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3 hours ago, FloydMayweather said:

Its not about loyalty, it's about integrity and not becoming the run of the mill e-begging Twitch streamer. It's about putting the quality of the content before anything else, which won't happen if you do interrupt the stream constantly due to bits and donations. Something DSP said himself.

All I am saying is dont bring that shit to YouTube, there is a reason why I stopped watching Twitch streamers all together years ago.

Sounds like you need to find another youtuber then. If the "quality of the content" in terms of being about the game only is what you're mostly concerned with, there are lots of youtubers that do that better than DSP.

For most of the people watching DSP, "quality of the content" is not something they care about. They like DSP's personality, they think he's funny, and that's not going to change watching him on twitch; if anything it will be strengthened assuming DSP can provide fun interaction. Granted that the youtube audience will feel left out in some regards, but that has less to do with "lack of quality content", and more to do with picking what audience you talk to.

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23 hours ago, FloydMayweather said:

Its not about loyalty, it's about integrity and not becoming the run of the mill e-begging Twitch streamer. It's about putting the quality of the content before anything else, which won't happen if you do interrupt the stream constantly due to bits and donations. Something DSP said himself.

 

All I am saying is dont bring that shit to YouTube, there is a reason why I stopped watching Twitch streamers all together years ago.

Phil cares more about paying his bills than he does integrity. The run of the mill ebegger can pay their bills.

He is simply not interesting enough. His jokes aren't funny enough. I'm not a hater by any means, but so much of Phil's peak business hinges on what games are out.

"No big, hyped-up releases, and so views are low!" People should be tuning in for HIM, but they don't.

So, he will have to change his style I'm afraid.

P.s. Sorry if I sounded rude in the first post. I didn't realise until I read that back, haha.

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On 03/12/2017 at 7:34 AM, FloydMayweather said:

Its not about loyalty, it's about integrity and not becoming the run of the mill e-begging Twitch streamer. It's about putting the quality of the content before anything else, which won't happen if you do interrupt the stream constantly due to bits and donations. Something DSP said himself.

 

All I am saying is dont bring that shit to YouTube, there is a reason why I stopped watching Twitch streamers all together years ago.

I don't know if you noticed but over the years "integrity" hasn't worked out very well for Phil. He may blame YouTube for it, but the only reason he's fallen as far as he has in searches and such is because of his "integrity", or as I prefer to call it, stubborness. His resistance to change is not a good thing. It's only ever hurt him and you encouraging him to never change only hurts him.

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11 hours ago, HandsomeJack said:

I don't know if you noticed but over the years "integrity" hasn't worked out very well for Phil. He may blame YouTube for it, but the only reason he's fallen as far as he has in searches and such is because of his "integrity", or as I prefer to call it, stubborness. His resistance to change is not a good thing. It's only ever hurt him and you encouraging him to never change only hurts him.

No, he has fallen from the search results because of false copyright strikes and deceptive videos made against him.

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48 minutes ago, LastRambo341 said:

No, he has fallen from the search results because of false copyright strikes and deceptive videos made against him.

Nope. He fell in search results moreso when YouTube changed the search algorithm to go by engagement rather view count. Phil's videos have a low engagement score, he's admitted it. As a result he's lower in searches than videos people are watching all the way through. Contrary to what Phil says length of video has absolutely nothing to do with engagement score. If it did the first dozen pages would be nothinf but short videos. After five minutes is a higher percentage of a 10 minute video than a 20 minute video.

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5 minutes ago, HandsomeJack said:

Nope. He fell in search results moreso when YouTube changed the search algorithm to go by engagement rather view count. Phil's videos have a low engagement score, he's admitted it. As a result he's lower in searches than videos people are watching all the way through. Contrary to what Phil says length of video has absolutely nothing to do with engagement score. If it did the first dozen pages would be nothinf but short videos. After five minutes is a higher percentage of a 10 minute video than a 20 minute video.

You cannot deny that the false copyright strikes made against him in regards to fan art contributed to the decline. I bet the evil culprit responsible for that is very proud of himself.

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On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 2:34 AM, LastRambo341 said:

You cannot deny that the false copyright strikes made against him in regards to fan art contributed to the decline. I bet the evil culprit responsible for that is very proud of himself.

Is there any proof that's what happened though? It's possible the reason he was taken out of search results was because of low watch time. That is a known consequence of people not watching the full videos after all.

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12 hours ago, jwalker said:

Is there any proof that's what happened though? It's possible the reason he was taken out of search results was because of low watch time. That is a known consequence of people not watching the full videos after all.

From Phil, himself.

We have seen the results anyways when the videos got the strike and eliminated views and revenue for a while

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On 3/13/2017 at 11:28 PM, HandsomeJack said:

Nope. He fell in search results moreso when YouTube changed the search algorithm to go by engagement rather view count. Phil's videos have a low engagement score, he's admitted it. As a result he's lower in searches than videos people are watching all the way through. Contrary to what Phil says length of video has absolutely nothing to do with engagement score. If it did the first dozen pages would be nothinf but short videos. After five minutes is a higher percentage of a 10 minute video than a 20 minute video.

You're so wrong, it's laughable.

 

First off, yes, I was declining in search results overall as "engagement" became the factor in the algorithm to create "popularity" in search and related views. It used to be JUST views, which is when I was tops on YouTube, but when they changed the algorithm, it completely screwed me. My business is based on pumping out raw playthroughs with reactionary commentary and getting them out quickly (or, at least, that's what I was successful doing from 2008-2013); completely CHANGING the system to something based on the % of a video watched, without any valid explanation or justification (no, YouTube DID NOT PUBLICLY DISCLOSE THEY WERE DOING THIS OR WHY until it was already well implemented and negatively effecting me) is what screwed over DSPGaming. Most people who watch my videos DO SKIP STUFF and look for exciting parts, because raw gameplay has downtime. Some people enjoy that, many do not, so obviously it's going to have a lower "engagement percentage" than someone who edits out ANYTHING boring. My business model worked, until YouTube changed the business behind the scenes for their own reasons, and didn't disclose that info to anybody (until much later, and even then, it was only on their own blog post and not publicly disclosed to common content creators anywhere else).

However, YouTube DID implement (for about 1-2 years) a different algorithm based on "length of time watched" and NOT engagement score. I know, because that incredibly stupid statistic still exists in YouTube Analytics. YES, YouTube actually did for 1-2 years put videos that were simply "longer" at the top of their search, because they're a bunch of fucking morons. It did NOT measure an actual % of video watched, but based on it LENGTH OF TIME watched. SO obviously, someone who made 30+ minute gameplay videos would, by default, show up higher in search than someone that made 10-minute gameplay videos (such as me, because I'd started in 2008 when you couldn't even make videos longer than 11 minutes). So when YouTube made this change, ALL OF MY OLD GAMEPLAY VIDEOS immediately fell out of search results. My old playthroughs having millions of views didn't even show up when you searched for the games they were for, SIMPLY BECAUSE they were short. This is factually documented and I saw it myself: all of a sudden, in 2013 my Spider-Man Shattered Dimensions playthrough, which always brought me in 10k or more views a month, started receiving ZERO views a month because it didn't show up in search anymore. It was complete and utter bullshit.

Now, YouTube's CURRENT algorithm does measure "% of video watched" as the "engagement" percentage, so now FINALLY those who make longer videos are no longer getting "artificially popular" in the search anymore. But it took YouTube 2+ years to fix this, because they're morons.

 

However, ALL OF THE ABOVE has nothing to do with the fact that in Summer 2015, a series of false copyright strikes forced me to delete some 600 videos from DSPGaming, amounting in a net loss of 3.5 million views on the channel. YouTube's stupid algorithm takes ANY significant drop in overall views as a "red flag" that a channel has been involved in some kind of wrongdoing, and punishes that channel by significantly lowering it in YouTube's power rankings for search. DSPGaming had been HIGH UP THERE because it was in operation since 2010 and had 30-40k videos on it; on that day, it literally was removed from those rankings and DSPGaming was treated as if it were a completely new channel. Those copyright strikes FUCKED ME, caused me tens of thousands of dollars in lost revenue and singlehandedly created the downward spiral that the channel resulted in for the next 1.5 years. NOTHING I did changed it: longer videos, different tagging/naming of videos, etc. In 2016, only TWO of the thousands of videos I uploaded to DSPGaming got a significant showing in YouTube search rankings, and both of those videos got a large spike in views. Outside of that? Literally nobody searching for the games that I played EVER saw my videos in YouTube search. And sadly, that's pretty much still the case today.

How do I know this? Because I talked with YouTube on a conference call with Machinima in late 2015 and they confirmed it. Machinima advised, at that time, that there was nothing that could be done to fix it besides "keeping at it" in the hopes that if I did, due to the sheer amount of content I put out, the channel would get some of its priority back in search. It did not - and indeed, when YouTube went from the "average length of video viewed" to "percentage of video viewed" for engagement calculations, guess what? It FURTHER TANKED DSPGaming, since everyone constantly skips around my videos without watching the entire thing.

 

You can argue until you're blue in the face that it was "my fault" that DSPGaming tanked so hard over the years. I see it differently: I had a perfectly successful business, which up to that point was 100% in line with what YouTube wanted, and everybody enjoyed it. Then YouTube, behind the scenes, completely changed the rules WITHOUT publicly disclosing any of it to the common YouTuber; and they kept doing so over and over every couple of years. Then the false copyright strikes only compounded the problem. It's a perfect storm of negative shit and quite the story, when you think about it: doing everything right, then someone "Changes the rules" behind the scenes and despite all efforts to save the sinking ship, you eventually have to do something different or fade away. The change to a different style (Twitch-style) gameplay is/was needed, because YouTube certainly wasn't going to stop fucking me over anytime soon.

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On 3/14/2017 at 2:34 AM, LastRambo341 said:

You cannot deny that the false copyright strikes made against him in regards to fan art contributed to the decline. I bet the evil culprit responsible for that is very proud of himself.

Actually if you're curious there was a live stream debate between Vidar Viking and CuckenJohnson on Sunday and at the end when they were taking questions from the audience the culprit who had done the fanart copyright strikes appeared and said (to paraphrase) that he did it because Phil did not refund the Patreon money to those who donated for the Project 7 teaser. He was upset that basically anyone who donated that month were excluded from a Patreon goal and that there was no equivalant comoensation in his perception. He also said he was never gonna take it farther than the strike. But thats up to you or anyone to believe that or not.

Now to clarify that is all he said. Whether or not me or anyone believes or thinks the same is a whole different discussion.

So yeah. I guess he would be proud. Like legit proud of it.

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