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Why Patreon has been low


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Just now, alex89 said:

I think reviews should be free. His main goal should be game specific. He could play Hello Neighbour or 60 Seconds!. He should use the patreon for an idea would be he make in twitch a suggestion like "He give 2 to 3 weeks for the 2-4 person how give him many bits and cheers a custom package from teespring like shirts, cups and special content".

Another idea would be I upgrade my equipment and the patreons could choose for me. 

Phil already explained why he doesn't do reviews?

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Well Phil, I suppose someone expect more from you. All you do now adays is stream games. And i suppose you get the vast ammount of support for that particular thing over Twitch.  You used to do V-lo

First off, it's great that you don't understand how making a living works. If I'm struggling to barely pay my bills, chances are that taking away from doing things that can keep the bills paid aren't

Got no time for muppets who post filth on the forum.

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9 minutes ago, ThatDogGuy said:

Phil already explained why he doesn't do reviews?

Yes i know, because he does not get any money from youtube. My idea would be he make a review but upload to twitch or another alternative media like vidme.

He could still upload in youtube as a archive. We do not know what youtube is preparing for further problems in the future. He has no backup channel.

He could get money,  in the beginning he will have little money than usual.

But it makes sense to think of it before.

What do you think why many youtuber creator now think of a backup channel.

 

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3 hours ago, ThatDogGuy said:

Reviews don't bring in viewers so I don't see the point in suggesting it.  No use in spending all that time doing it if his viewers hit rock bottom. 

 

1 hour ago, ThatDogGuy said:

Phil already explained why he doesn't do reviews?

Actually he said he was going to do reviews next year since he's to busy right now. Plus he said it's going to be in vlog format so it will only take 30 minutes. And a Patreon goal would compensate him.

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I like the review idea because he puts out some of the more honest reviews, if not a bit longwinded. I think he should make a game review added to more milestones and possibly up his total monthly goal. So at $500 he MUST review one game he plays of his choosing. If he hits $700 he MUST review one game of his choosing and one of his fans choosing that he recently played. At the full monthly goal he MUST review 2 games of his choosing he played recently and one the fans choose in addition to previous milestones. 

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I don't like that money is his only Motivation more then half the time. Like, its only really a good idea, if there is profit.

Anyway beating that dead horse, the real question is....does he even truely WANT to do Reviews? Because if he enjoyed doing it, the views, work and revenue wouldn't be an obstacle, he'd do it cause he likes it, like DSPtries it. Does he just like doing it, or does he do it for clicks and cash? Cause....its not like its educational to tell us about Fastfood that you can just get anywhere, and how unhealthy it is when pretty much all fastfood is bloated with salt and preserves....and tell us while eating it himself.

Eh, just 'food' for thought.

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55 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

I don't like that money is his only Motivation more then half the time. Like, its only really a good idea, if there is profit.

Anyway beating that dead horse, the real question is....does he even truely WANT to do Reviews? Because if he enjoyed doing it, the views, work and revenue wouldn't be an obstacle, he'd do it cause he likes it, like DSPtries it. Does he just like doing it, or does he do it for clicks and cash? Cause....its not like its educational to tell us about Fastfood that you can just get anywhere, and how unhealthy it is when pretty much all fastfood is bloated with salt and preserves....and tell us while eating it himself.

Eh, just 'food' for thought.

First off, it's great that you don't understand how making a living works. If I'm struggling to barely pay my bills, chances are that taking away from doing things that can keep the bills paid aren't a good idea. If I only did things that didn't make me money, I would lose my house, lose my income, and wouldn't be able to put out any videos at all anymore. Mature, adult logic needs to be employed here, but sadly a lot of people still live in fantasy worlds.

Now regarding if I enjoy reviews:

I already review games when I'm playing them. In the credits of every playthrough and/or final part of the series, I summarize my thoughts. I don't give number scores, but I do touch upon the positives/negatives, say if I think it's as good as another game in the same series, etc. When I make "formal" reviews, I'm technically reviewing the same game for the second time, summarizing my points into one concise video and showcasing video clips to back up what I'm saying. But a ton of it is just busywork and repetition.

Do I enjoy playing games and giving my honest thoughts about them? Yes, absolutely. Do I enjoy taking 8 hours after I'm done with the game to take the thoughts I've already expressed before, re-record them and add then scour 10+ hours of video footage to find video clips to back up what I'm saying? Hell no. That's gruntwork, it's not creative or intelligent at all, it's boring and not fun for me.

The reason you see "big gaming YouTubers" doing their formal reviews is simple: they're not long-form Let's Players like I am. They either don't want to be, or they simply cannot hold the interest of an audience long enough to have them watched being played the entirety of a game from start to finish. So when they're releasing their "formal reviews" it's the very first time they're sharing that info with the public, and the first time the public is seeing that gameplay/info in sync. It's very much NOT that case for me, at all.

Your entire post is, quite frankly, incredibly misguided and borderline a blatant insult. I don't do DSP Tries It because "I like to eat bloated fast food full of salt and preservatives." Half the time, I don't even like what's in the food. I don't ONLY do things to make money, but money is always a concern when you do this for a living. Perhaps you could learn some manners before you make dumbfuck posts like this again? Thanks. 

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11 minutes ago, Phil said:

Do I enjoy playing games and giving my honest thoughts about them? Yes, absolutely. Do I enjoy taking 8 hours after I'm done with the game to take the thoughts I've already expressed before, re-record them and add then scour 10+ hours of video footage to find video clips to back up what I'm saying? Hell no. That's gruntwork, it's not creative or intelligent at all, it's boring and not fun for me.

You're misunderstanding what is being said. My idea to bring reviews back is to have them in the style of the Sonic Mania review.

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1 hour ago, Phil said:

First off, it's great that you don't understand how making a living works. If I'm struggling to barely pay my bills, chances are that taking away from doing things that can keep the bills paid aren't a good idea. If I only did things that didn't make me money, I would lose my house, lose my income, and wouldn't be able to put out any videos at all anymore. Mature, adult logic needs to be employed here, but sadly a lot of people still live in fantasy worlds.

Now regarding if I enjoy reviews:

I already review games when I'm playing them. In the credits of every playthrough and/or final part of the series, I summarize my thoughts. I don't give number scores, but I do touch upon the positives/negatives, say if I think it's as good as another game in the same series, etc. When I make "formal" reviews, I'm technically reviewing the same game for the second time, summarizing my points into one concise video and showcasing video clips to back up what I'm saying. But a ton of it is just busywork and repetition.

Do I enjoy playing games and giving my honest thoughts about them? Yes, absolutely. Do I enjoy taking 8 hours after I'm done with the game to take the thoughts I've already expressed before, re-record them and add then scour 10+ hours of video footage to find video clips to back up what I'm saying? Hell no. That's gruntwork, it's not creative or intelligent at all, it's boring and not fun for me.

The reason you see "big gaming YouTubers" doing their formal reviews is simple: they're not long-form Let's Players like I am. They either don't want to be, or they simply cannot hold the interest of an audience long enough to have them watched being played the entirety of a game from start to finish. So when they're releasing their "formal reviews" it's the very first time they're sharing that info with the public, and the first time the public is seeing that gameplay/info in sync. It's very much NOT that case for me, at all.

Your entire post is, quite frankly, incredibly misguided and borderline a blatant insult. I don't do DSP Tries It because "I like to eat bloated fast food full of salt and preservatives." Half the time, I don't even like what's in the food. I don't ONLY do things to make money, but money is always a concern when you do this for a living. Perhaps you could learn some manners before you make dumbfuck posts like this again? Thanks. 

-Sigh- The famous overblown Paragraph reponse.

Dude, I have a job, I know how adult life works, thanks. And honestly, you can easily afford to do other things While doing EXACTLY what you've been doing and still make the same if not more money. You've done it for quite a while, untill you decided it wasn't worth it. I think you just need better time management, and fucking stop, nobody remotly says to ''only do things that make no money''

So you DON'T enjoy making reviews. Could have started and ended right there Phil. Clean Cut. THEN explain that you pretty much just review the game at the credit. Just a tiny critique, cause you have a habit of over explaining things. Its great that you love to play games and talk about them breifly at the end, but that as nothing to do with my statement about making a review.

I don't need a 'Reason' for people to make reviews. Some people out there like to share information and their thoughts. You make it sound like they only do it because they arn't let's players...which is very false, there are lets players who do reviews. Hell, you were one of those people. 

-Sigh- You're misunderstanding that last bit, its about 'You do it because you like it' You like to make videos reviewing Unhealthy Fastfood. Why? Cause, you enjoy it? Or because its a quick buck? Its a question Phil. Sorry you apparently got offended by it. You  need to stop reading everything like an attack, because my post is about if you actually want to make Review videos.

Not specifically about your motivation to money.

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Hello phil i read you comment and dont understand your problem. You say "Do I enjoy taking 8 hours after I'm done with the game to take the thoughts I've already expressed before, re-record them and add then scour 10+ hours of video footage to find video clips to back up what I'm saying? Hell no. That's gruntwork, it's not creative or intelligent at all, it's boring and not fun for me."

You can ask the fans to find video clips from the game and sent to you. This has nothing to do with  with creative or intelligent.  This is no difficult. 

"The reason you see "big gaming YouTubers" doing their formal reviews is simple: they're not long-form Let's Players like I am. They either don't want to be, or they simply cannot hold the interest of an audience long enough to have them watched being played the entirety of a game from start to finish. So when they're releasing their "formal reviews" it's the very first time they're sharing that info with the public, and the first time the public is seeing that gameplay/info in sync. It's very much NOT that case for me, at all. "

Can you please define what you mean by "Big gaming Youtubers"?  I give you a example.

This is kuplinov, he is russian lets player and has one million subscribers. He plays partly the same games as you and get over 300 to 500k per video. He plays flash games and unknown game which I say all the time.

If the new viewers look at you channel , they wonder why you have so few views which make no sense. The first thing the new viewers see is the detractor channels they read the comments and judge your situation negatively. That is also the situation with reviews and patreon.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Phil said:

First off, it's great that you don't understand how making a living works. If I'm struggling to barely pay my bills, chances are that taking away from doing things that can keep the bills paid aren't a good idea. If I only did things that didn't make me money, I would lose my house, lose my income, and wouldn't be able to put out any videos at all anymore. Mature, adult logic needs to be employed here, but sadly a lot of people still live in fantasy worlds.

This is absolutely correct and something I don't get why people misunderstand. it totally makes sense that when you're losing money is your concern to ensure that you don't lose any more. You are killing yourself trying to make these drastic changes and it doesn't help when you're getting responses like Ziggy's, which is just plain aggressive. 

You're doing a good job man, just don't be thrown off by those living in fantasy worlds as you put it. :dry:

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6 hours ago, Ziggy said:

-Sigh- The famous overblown Paragraph reponse.

Dude, I have a job, I know how adult life works, thanks. And honestly, you can easily afford to do other things While doing EXACTLY what you've been doing and still make the same if not more money. You've done it for quite a while, untill you decided it wasn't worth it. I think you just need better time management, and fucking stop, nobody remotly says to ''only do things that make no money''

So you DON'T enjoy making reviews. Could have started and ended right there Phil. Clean Cut. THEN explain that you pretty much just review the game at the credit. Just a tiny critique, cause you have a habit of over explaining things. Its great that you love to play games and talk about them breifly at the end, but that as nothing to do with my statement about making a review.

I don't need a 'Reason' for people to make reviews. Some people out there like to share information and their thoughts. You make it sound like they only do it because they arn't let's players...which is very false, there are lets players who do reviews. Hell, you were one of those people. 

-Sigh- You're misunderstanding that last bit, its about 'You do it because you like it' You like to make videos reviewing Unhealthy Fastfood. Why? Cause, you enjoy it? Or because its a quick buck? Its a question Phil. Sorry you apparently got offended by it. You  need to stop reading everything like an attack, because my post is about if you actually want to make Review videos.

Not specifically about your motivation to money.

You need to understand, and this isn't a slight towards Phil, that Phil makes a good living just sitting down on his couch and pressing record*, uploading it on YouTube and some fan *giving* donations and tips. There is no real motivation for him to make reviews, especially if they take... like he said 8 hours and make no money. Seriously, put yourself in his shoes and if you could make a lot money without that much effort why would you then crowbar reviews which take a lot of time.

 

Phil is in the business of making money and trimming the fat of stuff that don't help him. I dont have a problem with it, it is what it is.

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7 hours ago, Amityville said:

:ohmy:

Come on man... there's really no need to be so rude.

When mud is slung at you, slinging mud back is a reflex. We all do it.

 

3 hours ago, ThatDogGuy said:

Ziggy's, which is just plain aggressive. 

You're doing a good job man, just don't be thrown off by those living in fantasy worlds as you put it. :dry:

Aggressive.....MAN some of you are just so dam Defensive. And there is no Fantasy world, realistically Phil can, and Has done these things listed.

3 hours ago, FloydMayweather said:

You need to understand, and this isn't a slight towards Phil, that Phil makes a good living just sitting down on his couch and pressing record*, uploading it on YouTube and some fan *giving* donations and tips. There is no real motivation for him to make reviews, especially if they take... like he said 8 hours and make no money. Seriously, put yourself in his shoes and if you could make a lot money without that much effort why would you then crowbar reviews which take a lot of time.

 

Phil is in the business of making money and trimming the fat of stuff that don't help him. I dont have a problem with it, it is what it is.

Because its something I love to do, and if I love to do it, ill Make Time when I can. Like playing video games and hanging out with friends in real life. I have my own life, jobs, and obligations, but I always make room for the things I enjoy and Want to do. 

Thats why I bring up DSPtries it, to me thats fluff, and Phil says he doesn't make pointless fluff vids. But for whatever reason, he still makes those videos that make hardly any money, and if I can be honest don't really offer anything other then watching someone eat fastfood and tell you how bad it obviously is. Maybe they do make a little money, or maybe he just enjoys making those videos, and so he always makes time for them at least once a week or every so often.

He has no motivation to make game reviews? Well, that addresses and directly answers the main point of my previous post. "Does he even Want to Make Reviews"

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2 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

He has no motivation to make game reviews? Well, that addresses and directly answers the main point of my previous post. "Does he even Want to Make Reviews"

It all comes down to what the fans want and if there's money in it. My guess is that if Phil streamed his editing of a review and showing how he does that he could receive enough support. It's obvious that DSP gets that kind of support on Twitch not because he's playing the latest games, but because he is playing. Based on that, I think that people ask for some variety - it will also be a stream, but instead of playing the game, Phil could go through the videos, take the moments he wants to highlight, address them etc. and I bet that he would still get subs/cheers/tips. What do you guys think about it?

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1 hour ago, Hacman said:

It all comes down to what the fans want and if there's money in it. My guess is that if Phil streamed his editing of a review and showing how he does that he could receive enough support. It's obvious that DSP gets that kind of support on Twitch not because he's playing the latest games, but because he is playing. Based on that, I think that people ask for some variety - it will also be a stream, but instead of playing the game, Phil could go through the videos, take the moments he wants to highlight, address them etc. and I bet that he would still get subs/cheers/tips. What do you guys think about it?

That is great idea the name could be review the king. The problem here is phil get quickly bored. I think he could play every saturday and sunday subscriber and patreon weekend with king or random games with king it could be called. It would work that way phil go on steam and choose random games and plays around 20 - 45 Minutes. He could upload this whole Event on youtube and gets more views, because nobody would expect that. The trick is he does not know any of the games. It is proposed by stream chat. Every genre this could be trash games or demos. He get subs cheers or tips.  If he likes the game he adds it to patreon forum  and  the patreon subscribers can choose 2 to 3 Games from their forum. This is just a suggestion

 

.

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19 minutes ago, alex89 said:

That is great idea the name could be review the king. The problem here is phil get quickly bored. I think he could play every saturday and sunday subscriber and patreon weekend with king or random games with king it could be called. It would work that way phil go on steam and choose random games and plays around 20 - 45 Minutes. He could upload this whole Event on youtube and gets more views, because nobody would expect that. The trick is he does not know any of the games. It is proposed by stream chat. Every genre this could be trash games or demos. He get subs cheers or tips.  If he likes the game he adds it to patreon forum  and  the patreon subscribers can choose 2 to 3 Games from their forum. This is just a suggestion

 

.

That sounds actually nice. Keep in mind, Phil is more focused on Twitch now than on YT, so it would make more sense that Patreon shifts there (on streams, that is). Also, since Twitch is the main focus, could it be possible that a monthly goal is set so Twitch viewers can directly influence it?

For example, there's a streamer I've been following ever since he started on Twitch. For the past couple of months, he installed a "Twitch cup", so to say. Every new follower, sub, cheer or tip is shown as an icon that goes into that cup on-screen (with a certain sound effect and a shout out). Could it be possible to set a certain amount of cheers/subs/tips as a Patreon mark? For example, 125000 bits for a monthly goal? Or is it against Twitch TOS? That way seems more effective, and more people could contribute to the goal, even if it's just 10 cents. People could directly see where their money went, and get immediate recognition for their contribution(s). 

The only downside, as far as I can tell, is that Patreon money is instant, while there's a two month delay for Twitch payment (except the tips). What do you think Phil? 

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3 hours ago, Ziggy said:

He has no motivation to make game reviews? Well, that addresses and directly answers the main point of my previous post. "Does he even Want to Make Reviews"

He has zero motivation, that's a fact whether he denies it or not. Once again he's not wrong, when you are in a tight financial situation like he is you have to do stuff that makes money. 

 

He might enjoy making reviews but the time spent and effort might not be worth it.

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On 11/14/2017 at 3:58 AM, ThatDogGuy said:

This is absolutely correct and something I don't get why people misunderstand. it totally makes sense that when you're losing money is your concern to ensure that you don't lose any more. You are killing yourself trying to make these drastic changes and it doesn't help when you're getting responses like Ziggy's, which is just plain aggressive. 

You're doing a good job man, just don't be thrown off by those living in fantasy worlds as you put it. :dry:

Your living in a fantasy world if you think Phil could continue doing the things the same way and expect growth.  Thing is that you needed to change with the viewing audience.  

Doing the same thing get stale and your audience loses interest.  Also, the viewing audience mature over time and their taste change. That why many TV channels change their TV shows or their format.  To keep your exisiting fan base or to acquire new fans you needed to do something that interest the viewer.  

This same statement I made was express by Rich from ReviewTech about his own channel.

Sticky to one’s gun may be an admirable thing to do, but in the world of entertainment it can be a death sentence.

I am NOT comapring Rich with DSP.  I’m just throwing out information on why certain Twitch or YT channels don’t get any growth.  Do what you may with the information.

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On 11/15/2017 at 5:30 PM, moka'roka said:

Your living in a fantasy world if you think Phil could continue doing the things the same way and expect growth.  Thing is that you needed to change with the viewing audience.  

Doing the same thing get stale and your audience loses interest.  Also, the viewing audience mature over time and their taste change. That why many TV channels change their TV shows or their format.  To keep your exisiting fan base or to acquire new fans you needed to do something that interest the viewer.  

This same statement I made was express by Rich from ReviewTech about his own channel.

Sticky to one’s gun may be an admirable thing to do, but in the world of entertainment it can be a death sentence.

I am NOT comapring Rich with DSP.  I’m just throwing out information on why certain Twitch or YT channels don’t get any growth.  Do what you may with the information.

This can be debunked easily. You should never destroy the essential elements that keep your channel afloat. Evolution is a process which takes time. WWE didn't grow the Attitude era overnight, it did it very slowly. DSP knows his target audience and is very careful not to make drastic changes because he has something called pride and does keep his audience. 

So instead of asking him to change maybe you could be constructive and come up with some ideas that DSP can make overnight that will magically transport him to stardom. 

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2 hours ago, ThatDogGuy said:

This can be debunked easily. You should never destroy the essential elements that keep your channel afloat. Evolution is a process which takes time. WWE didn't grow the Attitude era overnight, it did it very slowly. DSP knows his target audience and is very careful not to make drastic changes because he has something called pride and does keep his audience. 

So instead of asking him to change maybe you could be constructive and come up with some ideas that DSP can make overnight that will magically transport him to stardom. 

Debunked!?! Why do you just want him to keep his core audience when he could try to expand on it.  If you were a true fan then it won’t matter if he tried something new.  So, I’m guessing Phil should of recording his gameplay with a camera or stayed with YT to live stream.  He already changed his format by doing this.

Also, everyone knows that their no quick fix.  There usually isn’t. 

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2 hours ago, ThatDogGuy said:

This can be debunked easily. You should never destroy the essential elements that keep your channel afloat. Evolution is a process which takes time. WWE didn't grow the Attitude era overnight, it did it very slowly. DSP knows his target audience and is very careful not to make drastic changes because he has something called pride and does keep his audience. 

So instead of asking him to change maybe you could be constructive and come up with some ideas that DSP can make overnight that will magically transport him to stardom. 

This is the biggest load of bollox i've read on this forum and that is saying something.

So how is Phil not changing going for him? He's been on Youtube for 10 years ffs. If it wasn't for Twitch he would be fucked right now.

His Youtube channel has months left if he's lucky, when he tried something different ie KOGaming it was going well but he never capitalised on that success and so the channel died.

You know if i didn't know any better i would say you are a detractor in disguise, because asking Phil not to change is exactly what they want.

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13 minutes ago, ilscuro said:

This is the biggest load of bollox i've read on this forum and that is saying something.

So how is Phil not changing going for him? He's been on Youtube for 10 years ffs. If it wasn't for Twitch he would be fucked right now.

His Youtube channel has months left if he's lucky, when he tried something different ie KOGaming it was going well but he never capitalised on that success and so the channel died.

You know if i didn't know any better i would say you are a detractor in disguise, because asking Phil not to change is exactly what they want.

You didn't read his post though. He said evolution doesn't happen overnight. I think everyone wants Phil to improve his product, so so much for accusing others of wanting Phil to stay the same. You guys can't tell him to abandon his core elements or the boat will sink, it's that simple. If Angry Joe stopped doing game commentary overnight and started doing music videos in an effort to revamp his product how is that going to work? His core audience would fuck off.

So maybe you should suggest ways Phil can improve his product, since you are so mich for change. This is what the forum is for.

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3 minutes ago, Amityville said:

You didn't read his post though. He said evolution doesn't happen overnight. I think everyone wants Phil to improve his product, so so much for accusing others of wanting Phil to stay the same. You guys can't tell him to abandon his core elements or the boat will sink, it's that simple. If Angry Joe stopped doing game commentary overnight in an effort to revamp his product how is that going to work?

So maybe you should suggest ways Phil can improve his product, since you are so mich for change.

But AngryJoe isn't failing, and Phil clearly is, his Youtube boat has sunk never mind sinking, his videos barely get any views, what worked for him before is clearly not working now, wouldn't it be nice to see a new invigorated Phil rather than the one we see now?

I have a life outside these forums it's not for me to make suggestions on how Phil should improve, he seems a very intelligent guy he will work it out himself eventually., he has too.

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2 hours ago, Amityville said:

So maybe you should suggest ways Phil can improve his product, since you are so mich for change. This is what the forum is for.

A lot of us have given ways to improve his product, but we get a paragraph long post on why these suggestion won’t work before he even tries them.  He wants a quick fix, but I’m afraid at this point there isn’t one.  he needs to reinvent himself and he’s already did that in a way by going back to Twitch and adopting direct capture.

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