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The reason youtube views may be down... (raw game play gone)

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12 minutes ago, masterxeon2002 said:

How many people here have a youtube channel the size of Phil's?

There is a lot of people telling him what to do but the cold hard fact is none of you run a channel the size of phils. If your methods for YouTube success were so great then why don't you use them yourself and why aren't you met with more success via your methods.

The thread could end on amityvilles statement really

Phil knows his audience and the content that favours the Youtube search algorithm and guess what negative reviews as he accurately predicted are getting attention

Like I said, he can do what he wants. I am just giving suggestions. No, I don't run a YouTube channel but as a viewer I can say that I personally don't enjoy watching multiple short videos. I would rather watch one long video. Also why do you want to end the thread? Isn't the point of a forum to discuss things?

 

How about this. Why not make a twitter poll and ask people what video length they prefer?

Edited by pooggie

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On 26/03/2018 at 4:48 AM, Phil said:

Except I've already explained tons of times how YouTube's engagement algorithm works, and that engagement for raw gameplay PLUMMETS when you make a video longer (Because people skip around, which is recorded as a "jump in engagement" and counts against you). In early 2017 I was told my videos were barely receiving advertisements because my overall engagement was WAY low (as in, around 30% on average) and that shortening my average video upload time would help that. I'm now up to about 50-60% engagement. And I've talked about this numerous times, but nobody seems to listen.

I'm sure you have best of intentions but read above.

A twitter poll can show people would like longer videos but that wouldn't make it a financially beneficial business decision in the long term.

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39 minutes ago, masterxeon2002 said:

I'm sure you have best of intentions but read above.

A twitter poll can show people would like longer videos but that wouldn't make it a financially beneficial business decision in the long term.

How can you be so sure it isn't a financially beneficial business decision? Phil is using ancient tactics. If people are shouting for longer videos then why not just make them longer? Like I said before, it wouldn't hurt anything to try it for just a month and see if it improves the engagement. 

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Because Phil has built his brand / youtube channel whatever you wish to call it around raw unedited and uncut gameplay videos that are short and easily digestible to the viewer.

Imagine if a chain Japanese restaurant had a group of people who were very vocal all shouting they want fried chicken and burgers not sushi. That chain restaurant wouldn't be around for very long if they overhauled their entire business model throughout the chain restaurant market just because one location (Phils active and vocal audience)

How do you think phil's larger ( but not very vocal ) audience would feel?

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40 minutes ago, masterxeon2002 said:

Because Phil has built his brand / youtube channel whatever you wish to call it around raw unedited and uncut gameplay videos that are short and easily digestible to the viewer.

Imagine if a chain Japanese restaurant had a group of people who were very vocal all shouting they want fried chicken and burgers not sushi. That chain restaurant wouldn't be around for very long if they overhauled their entire business model throughout the chain restaurant market just because one location (Phils active and vocal audience)

How do you think phil's larger ( but not very vocal ) audience would feel?

Your hypothetical situation is slightly off. Instead of people asking for chicken and burgers at a sushi restaurant. They are instead asking for the bland sushi menu to be replaced with something more tasty and exciting. He isn't overhauling anything he is just getting fresher ingredients. 

 

As far as the less vocal audience is concerned, i'm sure they would welcome longer videos but we will never know because they aren't vocal about it. I'll say it again. He needs to experiment. Just changing the video length for a month won't bankrupt Phil.

Edited by pooggie
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11 minutes ago, pooggie said:

Your hypothetical situation is slightly off. Instead of people asking for chicken and burgers at a sushi restaurant. They are instead asking for the bland sushi menu to be replaced with something more tasty and exciting. He isn't overhauling anything he is just getting fresher ingredients. 

 

As far as the less vocal audience is concerned, i'm sure they would welcome longer videos but we will never know because they aren't vocal about it. I'll say it again. He needs to experiment. Just changing the video length for a month won't bankrupt Phil.

Except Phil did gradually increase the length of his videos for 2 years and it did nothing but tank his engagmenet and lead to lower views along with 3rd rate ads put on them (if any ads were there at all)

Increasing the length of videos is something that has already been tried and it tanked his channel like a zeppelin filled with bricks.

Have you played Far Cry 3? I think this scene is pertinent to my point here.

 

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4 hours ago, Phil said:

What does this have to do with DSPGaming, a YouTube channel that is blacklisted from popularity by a wall of negativity on YouTube, exactly?

No offence but to an outsider 50+ videos per playthrough might turn them off. I'd try it for even one playthrough at least. Would mean less editing for you. Just my 2cents :)

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43 minutes ago, masterxeon2002 said:

Except Phil did gradually increase the length of his videos for 2 years and it did nothing but tank his engagmenet and lead to lower views along with 3rd rate ads put on them (if any ads were there at all)

Increasing the length of videos is something that has already been tried and it tanked his channel like a zeppelin filled with bricks.

 

 

Okay how about a compromise. Upload the 100 parts but also upload a single video with all of the parts combined. 

Edited by pooggie

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10 hours ago, Phil said:

DSPGaming can NEVER grow. If you search for it, you see tons of negative, slanderous, defamatory videos about me before you can ever find it. This is 100% YouTube's fault. It's why I've abandoned the site and only use DSPGaming as an archive of my streamed gameplay. It is NOT my focus and never will be again.

In this case you need to focus on improving your streams, making them appeal to more than just your core audience. But that's better suited for a different thread.

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4 hours ago, pooggie said:

Okay how about a compromise. Upload the 100 parts but also upload a single video with all of the parts combined. 

I can already see what Phil is gonna say to this:

"Do you expect me to go through all of my videos in a play session to make a edited montage? WITH WHAT TIME?!"

xD :rolleyes:

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5 hours ago, masterxeon2002 said:

Imagine if a chain Japanese restaurant had a group of people who were very vocal all shouting they want fried chicken and burgers not sushi. That chain restaurant wouldn't be around for very long if they overhauled their entire business model throughout the chain restaurant market just because one location (Phils active and vocal audience)

This has to be the dumbest analogy used to describe the situation.   A better analogy would have beed a televison channel.  If a television channel notice that it’s losing viewer it does something to entice viewer to stay or to return.  This can be done by changing the show line up because the current line up has gone stale and viewers lose interest.  

Changing one’s format on Youtube can be a way to change things up and keep viewers interested. 

 

Edited by moka'roka

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4 minutes ago, moka'roka said:

This has to be the dumbest analogy used to describe the situation.   A better analogy would have beed a televison channel.  If a television channel notice that it’s losing viewer it does something to entice viewer to stay or to return.  This can be done by changing the show line up because the current line up has gone stale and viewers lose interest.  

Changing one’s format on Youtube can be a way to change things up and keep viewers interested. 

 

When ABC starts losing viewers, I'm pretty sure that it's not allowed for FOX, NBC and other TV networks to start running ads that say that ABC programming "is garbage, and the people that run that place are pedophiles, racists and dishonest thieves." That's literally what is allowed to happen on YouTube, with no recourse whatsoever.

Focusing on YouTube moving forward is a lost cause, because the site and business as a whole are a lost cause. Trust me, I tried for 9 years to make it work. When you have INSANELY out-of-touch management running things, and employees who have zero common sense in charge of the entire thing, it's like continually ramming your head into a wall. Why should I bother trying to increase viewership on YouTube when, overnight, they can just "change an algorithm" to remove advertisements from my videos, or make my videos disappear from YouTube search entirely? Or someone can abuse an automated, broken copyright system to take down my channel? ALL of these things have literally happened, and none of them were ever in my control. Increasing my video length in the hopes of netting a few more views (When in reality, seriously reducing the amount of videos I upload in a day would have the opposite effect, as is exactly what happened when I did so from 2015-2017) isn't worth it.

 

My focus should be elsewhere: Twitch. Working on growing that audience, making those streams more accessible and ultimately growing the channel (Which it continues to do). People have continually called me out-of-touch and someone that stubbornly clings to the past; I've done exactly the opposite of that with Twitch, and that's where the focus has to sit. Not on a dying, outdated, commonly hated business that has no real future for the common content creator. 

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9 hours ago, moka'roka said:

This has to be the dumbest analogy used to describe the situation.   A better analogy would have beed a televison channel.  If a television channel notice that it’s losing viewer it does something to entice viewer to stay or to return.  This can be done by changing the show line up because the current line up has gone stale and viewers lose interest.  

Changing one’s format on Youtube can be a way to change things up and keep viewers interested. 

 

Take away the analogy then forget I said anything about a restaurant if it is indeed so dumb. Maybe I oversimplified it.

 

You're still left with the fact that for 2 years Phil increased the length of his videos and it actively hurt dspgaming. Longer videos are known to hurt the style of videos Phil does. 

And yeah changing ones format on youtube can keep viewers interested. Your post ends there and doesn't offer any suggestions at all.

And that thing from far cry, the definition of insanity. Its not made up for the game its actually true, if you try something over and over expecting a different result its insane. Increasing length of videos now isn't any different to when they were first increased.
 

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9 hours ago, masterxeon2002 said:

And yeah changing ones format on youtube can keep viewers interested. Your post ends there and doesn't offer any suggestions at all.
 

I, along with a lot of other ppl on here already tried to give advice.  We are often replied to by Phil himself that it may work for this streamer or youtuber but not for him because his not like those ppl or some other excuse.  I tried tell him that he needed to reduce the dead air in his playthrough and gave examples on how.  After a while I decided to stop.  

Now, where is your suggestion with  insight on the reason why Phil’s YT channel is not growing.  

Edited by moka'roka

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I've chimed in with my thoughts as to why already in this very thread. I know you can read or else we wouldn't be having this back and four right now.

If you don't like what I am saying in this thread that's fine, but my suggestions and insight are above.

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1 hour ago, masterxeon2002 said:

I've chimed in with my thoughts as to why already in this very thread. I know you can read or else we wouldn't be having this back and four right now.

If you don't like what I am saying in this thread that's fine, but my suggestions and insight are above.

You haven't given any suggestions on how to grow Phil's channel. All you have done is shot down the suggestions others have given. You want Phil to keep doing the things that are keeping his content stagnant. 

It seems that nothing we said got through to him anyway. Oh well.

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On 2018-03-26 at 2:50 PM, Phil said:

These are all observations based on facts. Show me otherwise and I'll gladly consider it.

Fine I will. Your overall views are up because you're splitting the audience across more videos. You're actual audience hasn't increased. More parts means more views, which means more ads. I thought that's what you were going for. However you can achieve that exact same result with ad breaks. It's a feature that allows you to place ads in the middle of your video as well as the start.

So let's say instead of doing 15 parts for a first stream you release two (Before and after the break). The video would be about two hours long. You can place an ad at every 15 minute interval for a total of 8. Now let's say someone gets board an hour in and leaves. They still see 4 ads. Your revenue doesn't change.

Engagement/watch time may have a slight effect on ad rates but the metric is primarily used to boost videos in search/recommendation rankings. So if part one of a playthrough gets 10,000s of views with high watch time and the next 7 get 1000s of views with high watch time that's no different then one video with 15,000 views where a majority of the viewers quitting halfway through.

It's the same stats but measured differently.

Now yes if you do it this way audience retention will be down on the one video. But my point is that if DSPGaming doesn't show up in search regardless then why do you care?

But the reason your videos don't appear in search is not because it's unedited. It is because you dump 30+ videos and 6 hours of content all at once with vague titles. If I sent you 30 emails do you think you would be able to sort through all of them before you read them among  all your other emails you get in a day? The system will more effectively display your videos if there's less of them. Other wise people will just see random parts out of order.

And I hate the YouTube algorithm just as much as the next person but even I know that it works by reading keywords in the title. Your Homefront review went viral because people regular search for "Worst game" on YouTube (And in addition the algorithm reads the title/description/tags to get a "feel" for what the video is about and then handles recommendations).

Now compare that to this video. Far Cry 5 playthrough pt28 - Chasing Down Some Stashes. Do you think someone searching for Far Cry 5 gameplay would phrase it like that? You need to write your titles in a way that you feel people will write it in the search bar but also avoiding phrases that have a lot of competition and still have it be attractive.

This is why titling videos as playthroughs is a good move. Because everyone else calls them let's plays or walkthroughs. It also helps define your niche. So honest opinion? Get rid of the captions in the titles. They add nothing.

 

So overall making videos longer or shorter won't do anything for you because it's the same content. IMO the higher engagement is negligible because DSPGaming doesn't get good search results anyway. As long as you put enough ad breaks in then your revenue shouldn't change.

HOWEVER the one thing that will change is that sub boxes won't be flooded and it will be easier to scroll through your channel pages and playlists to find the part you want which will lead to more views per video.

My recommendation is to start doing 20 minute video and put one ad at the start and one in the middle. Then test the results.

On 2018-03-26 at 6:40 PM, Amityville said:

Evidence of this please?

What evidence. YouTube has a feature that allows you to put multiple ads throughout the video. Do you want me to provide evidence that this feature exists (which you can just research yourself) or do you want me to provide you with evidence that explains basic math?

You don't need a citation for every point in a constructed argument.

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On 3/26/2018 at 2:50 PM, Phil said:

Overall, views are either the same, or even UP, on a monthly basis.

From social blade:

5abd03f1a303f_ScreenShot2018-03-29at11_18_43AM.thumb.png.6d96915f6f1298081d927edc1598ed6f.png

Quick compare:

Jan 2016 - 2.73 M  

Jan 2017 - 2.07 M

Jan 2018 - 1.91 M

Feb 2016 - 2.33 M

Feb 2017 - 2.03 M

Feb 2018 - 1.39 M

Those are just a few but the trend continues for a few months with a few deviations. 

And yes, before someone says it, Social Blade is reliable in regard to things like viewer counts. They are very inaccurate when it comes to estimating earnings but things like subs/views/etc come from the YouTube API. I've cross checked the SocialBlade numbers with my own channel's and they are usually within 1-2%.

On 3/27/2018 at 1:22 AM, Phil said:

DSPGaming can NEVER grow. If you search for it, you see tons of negative, slanderous, defamatory videos about me before you can ever find it.

If you search for "DSPGaming" it's the 3rd in the list. If you search for "DSP gaming" it's 1st. Even just "DSP" gets you on the 1st page but yes there are a lot of negative vids before it. However this doesn't matter either way as I'd wager very few people who want to find your videos are searching for that.

On 3/27/2018 at 1:22 AM, Phil said:

Then in early 2017 I went BACK to the old way and things got better.

The algorithm changes frequently. Sometimes subtly, sometimes fairly drastically. What did or didn't work a year ago doesn't mean much regarding whatever voodoo YouTube is using now. I've gotten tired of chasing the never ending "What is the algorithm looking for this week" dragon so, partially based on feedback, I upload longer videos. It's both easier for me and viewers tend to prefer it; in fact, I can count on 1 hand the number of people who've said they like short (10 minute or less) videos as opposed to longer ones. If YouTube is mostly dead and just for archiving, why not make things less of a headache for your fans who choose to use that platform?

There's a lot more to say but it's not worth it because:

On 3/27/2018 at 2:35 PM, Phil said:

Focusing on YouTube moving forward is a lost cause, because the site and business as a whole are a lost cause.

As much as I eye-rolled whenever people would call whatever latest happening "THE DEATH OF YOUTUBE!", I do agree that gaming on YouTube, at least of the long-form, mostly uncut sort, is shrinking. Repeated displays of incompetence and lack of communication from YouTube combined with Twitch's growing popularity, their pushing to improve the platform and the draw of live interactive streams is, IMO, eroding the popularity of playthrough style videos on YouTube. Some justifications can be made to spend a little time working on things like SEO optimization, etc., I think it's not worth it to spend a significant amount of time and resources trying to grow on YouTube as an uncut playthrough style gaming channel if you aren't large already.

So why not give the fans what they want; longer videos w/more ad rolls to compensate. The platform is dead/dying anyway, so what is there really to lose?

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Well seeing as he is now indefinitely banned from twitch maybe he will listen to ways to improve his other sources of money such as YouTube.

Edited by pooggie

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Just now, pooggie said:

Well seeing as he is now indefinitely banned from twitch he will listen to ways to improve his other sources of money such as YouTube. 

There is zero evidence stating he is indefinitely banned from twitch. 

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Going back to the topic on YouTube I saw a video from video creators today. One point in the video was that in order to have consistent and strategic content. Strategic being the keyword here.

It means that each video must deliver value to a target audience and the title/thumbnail/description must state this value so that people search for it and watch it.

Sea of Thieves was a strategic video. It had a clear purpose. Review the game. A random part of a playthrough because it's so short? Not very strategic. Unless of coarse the game is something like Sonic where the levels are super short. In that case the purpose of the video is to play stage one (and so on).

Now the vlogging channel has strategic content but it isn't consistent as Phil only uploads the WIP to it. If Phil wants to get more views on YouTubve he needs a channel that both has videos uploaded everyday and all the videos have purpose.

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2 hours ago, Nich2440 said:

Going back to the topic on YouTube I saw a video from video creators today. One point in the video was that in order to have consistent and strategic content. Strategic being the keyword here.

It means that each video must deliver value to a target audience and the title/thumbnail/description must state this value so that people search for it and watch it.

Sea of Thieves was a strategic video. It had a clear purpose. Review the game. A random part of a playthrough because it's so short? Not very strategic. Unless of coarse the game is something like Sonic where the levels are super short. In that case the purpose of the video is to play stage one (and so on).

Now the vlogging channel has strategic content but it isn't consistent as Phil only uploads the WIP to it. If Phil wants to get more views on YouTubve he needs a channel that both has videos uploaded everyday and all the videos have purpose.

I would have 'liked' this, but apparently this forum restricts the number of posts one may 'like' in one day.

Strategic Content is key as this post states with Keywords playing a major role.  My evidence? The videos on my channel which have the most views.  I play VERY niche games.  Ones with titles that name a certain  difficult quest/new feature/tutorial have tens of thousands of more views than the ones with 'caption titles'.  I make vids purely for fun and to help others out.  The ones I have made over these past six years that were made to help others reliably get vastly greater views with longer view retention.   Based off my analytics, these views come from searches.  Are these people searching for my channel? NO, they are searching for the thing I cover in that video.  Are my videos high in the search results? YES, because I used Keywords early in my YouTube video making based off of what I would type into the Search Window to find a video about what I wanted to know/learn.  It's not brain surgery, but if it was I wouldn't type in 'Gazi Yasargil' to get information about Neurosurgery. ( on a side note: When I search DSPgaming, DSP's channel is top of the list on page one same as when I type in DSP gaming, so I'm not sure where all these complaints about not showing up in YouTube searches comes from ).   Okay, here is some evidence anyone can test themselves:

1) Type 'Far Cry 5 Boomer' into the YouTube search window

2) Note how ALL of the videos listed have Boomer in the title or in the description. 

3) Find DSP's vid.

Having a hard time?  It's not because of any 'algorithm', that the video isn't 'negative' nor due to any detractor, but because no where in the video title nor description does DSP use the Keyword 'Boomer'.  Thus, his video does not show up in any search. ( It's part 12: A Fun Canine Companion  with " This is my playthrough of Far Cry 5 on the PS4, with live commentary. "  That's all it says in the video description...plus plugs.

The use of Keywords in one's title and/or description has been around since YouTube began.  It is, after all how people find videos about things they want to watch.

 

 

 

Edited by Bienenstich
replacing a missing word
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Here's an example of how this works. I'm a fan of the anime show RWBY from Rooster Teeth. It has 5 volumes and the first three make up the first arc of the overall story. Volume 5 just ended and wrapped what is known as the "haven arc". So I made a fan intro where I took the openings of volume 4 and 5 and mashed them together. I titled it "RWBY Haven Arc Fanmade Opening (Volume 4 and 5 Combined)" If you search "RWBY Haven Arc" my video is the second result because no one has done anything like this yet.

Of coarse striking the iron while it's hot is another aspect of making Strategic content.

5 hours ago, Bienenstich said:

Having a hard time?  It's not because of any 'algorithm', that the video isn't 'negative' nor due to any detractor, but because no where in the video title nor description does DSP use the Keyword 'Boomer'.  Thus, his video does not show up in any search.

Also keep in mind that assuming all the other let's players put "Boomer" in their metadeta then you're also dealing with competition. The trick is to find what people search for and find a unique way of phasing it so that it's still eye catching, while isolated from the competition. 

5 hours ago, Bienenstich said:

This is my playthrough of Far Cry 5 on the PS4, with live commentary. "  That's all it says in the video description

I don't see the issue with that. It's a concise statement that tells people what the video is about. It's the title that need improvement.

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